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By what the OP describes, these devices could become a limited but perhaps “profound” replacement for flying thousands of kms to have a holiday. Or to have “po

By what the OP describes, these devices could become a limited but perhaps “profound” replacement for flying thousands of kms to have a holiday. Or to have “power holidays” similar to a Power Nap, where you use an VR/AR device to relive a holiday for 5/10 mins. Or to have “preview holidays” to experience a destination before booking a flight there. If travel agents still existed, then they would be a perfect market for these VR devices but travel agents have long gone the way of the dinosaurs.

davkan 2y ago
That all sounds very depressing to me if I’m being honest.
- Towaway69 2y ago
  So are the regular news concerning the destruction of the environment and our human caused climate change. If a VR set can reduce travel, then that might be something positive for the environment.
  - davkan 2y ago
    I think there’s lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions than swapping the annual family vacation for a bunch of VR headsets. By all means if you’re willing to make that sacrifice be my guest, but I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      I believe the OP was more thinking of all those corporate flights for a one hour talk. But you don't need VR for that. They could hold them over sms if they could read and write.
      - bonoboTP 2y ago
        Real deals aren't made over a zoom call. They just aren't. That's why they still fly there even though they are well aware of how to use zoom.
        moab9 2y ago
        they fly there and do the deal over email from the hotel.
    - Towaway69 2y ago
      > lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions Taking a bike (when possible) instead of a car, for example. I think many things that we can do fail because of our collective convenience: why take public transport when I can have my private space in a car? There might be low hanging fruits, but there is human convenience to take into account. Making potential low hanging fruit become had to implement. > I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset Most certainly it wouldn't be the same however experiencing a Venice during the Renaissance period using a VR device? That would be better than nothing and would also equate to a "type of" holiday (if done well). Its certainly not something that I can do physically.
      - Flop7331 2y ago
        > experiencing a Venice during the Renaissance period using a VR device That's not a holiday. That's a game.
        Towaway69 2y ago
        Gamification of holidays! /s
        toyg 2y ago
        Literally: it's an ever-so-slightly more immersive Assassin Creed 2. I mean, great, but worth spending a grand? Probably not.
      - davkan 2y ago
        I’m 100% down the idea that we have individual responsibility to the environment and must make some personal sacrifice. Paper grocery bags are much less convenient than plastic but I’m in support of legislation to ban plastic bags even if all the cost and inconvenience is passed on to the customer. Biking to work is a great choice if you live in range. Neither of these deprive you of truly transformative experiences like travel. Air travel will never be a green endeavor. It will always be something that we’ll have to compensate for elsewhere in pursuit of being carbon neutral. I’m not willing to tell someone that they should not fly across the country to see their friend in order to be an environmentally responsible citizen. Not while we still burn coal and gas to keep the lights on.
Earw0rm 2y ago
Unless perhaps you're severely disabled, holidays are so much more than just your eyes and ears. Not just all of your five senses, and your ability to interact, but the social and human side as well, and your ability to interact physically with it all. People said the same kind of things about TV - and while, on the one hand, they perhaps underestimated the profound effects of TV on society, nobody would confuse it with telepresence. I'm not sure what VR offers here that web panoramas, detailed photos and customer reviews don't.. there's a marginal advantage there perhaps but it feels like a $250-300 peripheral rather than a $kk investment.
- Towaway69 2y ago
  I guess the affect of the Internet would have been discounted at the times of books and libraries. You might also be underestimating the brains ability to conjure a completely new reality. Our imagination can transport us anywhere - hence adventure, travel and crime books. VR/AR experience augmented by our own imagination, hence to discount the affect of VR is also discounting the ability of our imagination. Of course holidays are much more but why do so many people prefer chatting online than chatting personally with other people? Why are online dating apps and food delivery so popular? I don't know but it definitely does not have something to do with people wanting to go out and interact with random people.
  - Kbelicius 2y ago
    > guess the affect of the Internet would have been discounted at the times of books and libraries. Not an argument. Besides, like 10-15 years in to WWW companies like amazon, google, facebook, youtube were there. 12 years after oculus rift VR is still a small niche. > You might also be underestimating the brains ability to conjure a completely new reality. Our imagination can transport us anywhere - hence adventure, travel and crime books. VR/AR experience augmented by our own imagination, hence to discount the affect of VR is also discounting the ability of our imagination. No, it is not discounting the ability of our imagination. It is more correct to say that you are discounting the ability of our imagination by suggesting that adventure, travel and crime books aren't all we need to immerse ourselves. By going this path of argumentation (if we can call it an argument) you are basically saying that VR is for those, well, lacking in imagination > Of course holidays are much more but why do so many people prefer chatting online than chatting personally with other people? Do they? I don't think they do. Chatting with someone they don't know? Maybe. Doing a video call with a friend/partner? No. > Why are online dating apps and food delivery so popular? You are conflating meeting (just meeting, once people meet they don't maintain their relationship on the app) someone new and not a social activity with, well, socializing with people that you want to socialize with. > I don't know but it definitely does not have something to do with people wanting to go out and interact with random people. You do understand that outsides is not filled only with random people? What argument are you trying to make for VR? What use case, that would make VR "huge", are you suggesting?

davkan 2y ago

That all sounds very depressing to me if I’m being honest.

Towaway69 2y ago
So are the regular news concerning the destruction of the environment and our human caused climate change. If a VR set can reduce travel, then that might be something positive for the environment.
- davkan 2y ago
  I think there’s lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions than swapping the annual family vacation for a bunch of VR headsets. By all means if you’re willing to make that sacrifice be my guest, but I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    I believe the OP was more thinking of all those corporate flights for a one hour talk. But you don't need VR for that. They could hold them over sms if they could read and write.
    - bonoboTP 2y ago
      Real deals aren't made over a zoom call. They just aren't. That's why they still fly there even though they are well aware of how to use zoom.
      - moab9 2y ago
        they fly there and do the deal over email from the hotel.
  - Towaway69 2y ago
    > lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions Taking a bike (when possible) instead of a car, for example. I think many things that we can do fail because of our collective convenience: why take public transport when I can have my private space in a car? There might be low hanging fruits, but there is human convenience to take into account. Making potential low hanging fruit become had to implement. > I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset Most certainly it wouldn't be the same however experiencing a Venice during the Renaissance period using a VR device? That would be better than nothing and would also equate to a "type of" holiday (if done well). Its certainly not something that I can do physically.
    - Flop7331 2y ago
      > experiencing a Venice during the Renaissance period using a VR device That's not a holiday. That's a game.
      - Towaway69 2y ago
        Gamification of holidays! /s
      - toyg 2y ago
        Literally: it's an ever-so-slightly more immersive Assassin Creed 2. I mean, great, but worth spending a grand? Probably not.
    - davkan 2y ago
      I’m 100% down the idea that we have individual responsibility to the environment and must make some personal sacrifice. Paper grocery bags are much less convenient than plastic but I’m in support of legislation to ban plastic bags even if all the cost and inconvenience is passed on to the customer. Biking to work is a great choice if you live in range. Neither of these deprive you of truly transformative experiences like travel. Air travel will never be a green endeavor. It will always be something that we’ll have to compensate for elsewhere in pursuit of being carbon neutral. I’m not willing to tell someone that they should not fly across the country to see their friend in order to be an environmentally responsible citizen. Not while we still burn coal and gas to keep the lights on.

Earw0rm 2y ago

Unless perhaps you're severely disabled, holidays are so much more than just your eyes and ears. Not just all of your five senses, and your ability to interact, but the social and human side as well, and your ability to interact physically with it all. People said the same kind of things about TV - and while, on the one hand, they perhaps underestimated the profound effects of TV on society, nobody would confuse it with telepresence. I'm not sure what VR offers here that web panoramas, detailed photos and customer reviews don't.. there's a marginal advantage there perhaps but it feels like a $250-300 peripheral rather than a $kk investment.

Towaway69 2y ago
I guess the affect of the Internet would have been discounted at the times of books and libraries. You might also be underestimating the brains ability to conjure a completely new reality. Our imagination can transport us anywhere - hence adventure, travel and crime books. VR/AR experience augmented by our own imagination, hence to discount the affect of VR is also discounting the ability of our imagination. Of course holidays are much more but why do so many people prefer chatting online than chatting personally with other people? Why are online dating apps and food delivery so popular? I don't know but it definitely does not have something to do with people wanting to go out and interact with random people.
- Kbelicius 2y ago
  > guess the affect of the Internet would have been discounted at the times of books and libraries. Not an argument. Besides, like 10-15 years in to WWW companies like amazon, google, facebook, youtube were there. 12 years after oculus rift VR is still a small niche. > You might also be underestimating the brains ability to conjure a completely new reality. Our imagination can transport us anywhere - hence adventure, travel and crime books. VR/AR experience augmented by our own imagination, hence to discount the affect of VR is also discounting the ability of our imagination. No, it is not discounting the ability of our imagination. It is more correct to say that you are discounting the ability of our imagination by suggesting that adventure, travel and crime books aren't all we need to immerse ourselves. By going this path of argumentation (if we can call it an argument) you are basically saying that VR is for those, well, lacking in imagination > Of course holidays are much more but why do so many people prefer chatting online than chatting personally with other people? Do they? I don't think they do. Chatting with someone they don't know? Maybe. Doing a video call with a friend/partner? No. > Why are online dating apps and food delivery so popular? You are conflating meeting (just meeting, once people meet they don't maintain their relationship on the app) someone new and not a social activity with, well, socializing with people that you want to socialize with. > I don't know but it definitely does not have something to do with people wanting to go out and interact with random people. You do understand that outsides is not filled only with random people? What argument are you trying to make for VR? What use case, that would make VR "huge", are you suggesting?