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AI has certainly made me feel like coding is low value. the derivative and repetitive nature of most coding tasks. when I ask GPT for some code and it spits o

AI has certainly made me feel like coding is low value. the derivative and repetitive nature of most coding tasks. when I ask GPT for some code and it spits out 200 lines of boilerplate in 2 seconds, i feel sick. what am i doing with my life.

ai4ever 2y ago
you misunderstand how software systems are built. These days, they are "assembled" out of building blocks which have clean interfaces. similar to how houses are built from prefabricated components. Imagine that the AI is producing these pre-fab parts to order. But the design of the interfaces and assembly is still an art. if you think of your job as a mason assembling bricks to build components, you are mistaken. you need to think of your job as an artist creating systems that work well built out of pre-fab components. there is a story of how woz wrote the entire software for the early apple in assembly. nobody does that anymore. because, we have tools that produce assembly like compilers and such. that didnt take away the jobs of software engineers, because, someone had to now produce code at a different layer of abstraction. imagine you ranting at the compiler 50 years back because it took away your job producing assembly code.
steve_adams_86 2y ago
I’m thinking about how that boilerplate isn’t going to move the business forward because it lacks domain insights, isn’t structured quite right, ignores the needs of the end users, and looks too much like the code conventions we’ve been trying to move away from (for example). Yes you can prompt your way out of that, but by the time you have you could have written the code yourself. I have never been able to use a large output directly from an LLM. They’re useful for starting from nothing or tickling your brain when you’re blocked on something, but they’re nowhere near making me wonder what I’m doing with my life. There’s so much more to software than code. I get that the final implementation is code, but the path to that delivery is incredibly complex. Especially with existing code belonging to relatively non technical teams. They need a real human to connect to them, their history, current and future needs, nuances of the teams’s capabilities, etc. AI is nowhere near serving teams like this, and I have a hard time imagining when that would change.
ein0p 2y ago
Really? It automates the extremely boring and low skill part of your job and you "feel sick"? I feel pretty great about getting to focus on the actual problem rather than on boilerplate.
- Borg3 2y ago
  No, you are absolutly wrong. If you would automate it yourself then its correct way of doing thing. You learn by the process, increasting your skill. But no, you choosed to do automation by AI, so you become nothing more that a frontend to put data in. Also, you are slowly loosing control about stuff you doing. I know, todays engineering culture is weird. Dont ask questions, its not of your concern, etc.. I wonder when that stuff finaly collapse.
  - nuancebydefault 2y ago
    I find it weird that people talk like that. Did you even try to make something (e.g. a side project) with the help of AI? AI is doing amazing things for me. If i feel i'm out of control because some parts of the generated code i don't understand, i just let it explain me, even ELI5 if that would be needed. If the explanation doesn't make sense,or it does make sense but it is not where i want to be heading, i point that out and the AI corrects the problem, or explains what the options are. Together we come to a more concise solution. I'm really amazed/confused why people talk like that about AI.
    - Borg3 2y ago
      No, I have no reason to use it. I have piles of my own programs, notes, docs. If I need to do sth, I can refer to those. In worst case, I have to use search engine to grab info with is immediatly mirrored. If it works for you, thats great. But its interesting people do NOT see danger, when its actually too late. Maybe ask AI about it ? ;)
      - nuancebydefault 2y ago
        I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. I understand that people see danger, but in fact there is no other option for us than to follow evolution. All major companies are embracing AI already and it's being used/pushed upon their customers as well. There's danger in copying stackoverflow code as-is as well. But would that mean we should not use info that is shared on SO? > In worst case, I have to use search engine to grab info with is immediatly mirrored. I've never heard anyone saying they use a search engine "as a last resort" >I have piles of my own programs, notes, docs. For me, working that way would only succeed if I would need to repeat a project that is say 90 percent the same as any of the hundreds of previous projects, and stay with a programming language like C or fortran. But if it works for you, great as well.
somethoughts 2y ago
My hot take is that GPT is getting better everyday at generating complicated and correct code that's maintainable, but its still got quite a ways to go. On the other hand today it's already passably good at generating stuff that requires less precision and less accuracy (i.e. humanities type stuff, marketing, managerial/secretarial tasks, etc.). So while you might be looking at your own CS job eventually being in jeopardy, whole swaths of alternative careers you aren't looking at are probably way, way more in jeopardy.
- stavros 2y ago
  > My hot take is that GPT is getting better everyday Really? My experience is that it gets better every release (every few months to a year) and then gradually worse until the next release.
  - ipaddr 2y ago
    It the business model of a great demo to get people to signup and reduce resources each release to make it lose less money. Rise and repeat. Meanwhile the free version is trying to keep up with other vender so they are forced to give away more and the difference between the two versions (paid/free) after a period of time favours the free. version
bravetraveler 2y ago
The boilerplate stuff is just that, boilerplate. It should be able to pump out drivel utility code. It doesn't change The real value is Doing Useful Stuff with the code, written by you, your LSP, or AI. The robots only take the jobs we give them. I don't give them code, more using LLMs as a sort of consultant with the pathological urge to lie and please.
- steve_adams_86 2y ago
  The pathological urge to please is incredibly obnoxious. Imagine an AI that could tell you your idea is shitty and be right. That would be awesome.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    Seriously, a simple "sorry - that API doesn't actually exist, it's going to have to be The Hard Way" Not make up a completely nonsensical API that just so happens to be a direct path to my query

ai4ever 2y ago

you misunderstand how software systems are built. These days, they are "assembled" out of building blocks which have clean interfaces. similar to how houses are built from prefabricated components. Imagine that the AI is producing these pre-fab parts to order. But the design of the interfaces and assembly is still an art. if you think of your job as a mason assembling bricks to build components, you are mistaken. you need to think of your job as an artist creating systems that work well built out of pre-fab components. there is a story of how woz wrote the entire software for the early apple in assembly. nobody does that anymore. because, we have tools that produce assembly like compilers and such. that didnt take away the jobs of software engineers, because, someone had to now produce code at a different layer of abstraction. imagine you ranting at the compiler 50 years back because it took away your job producing assembly code.

steve_adams_86 2y ago

I’m thinking about how that boilerplate isn’t going to move the business forward because it lacks domain insights, isn’t structured quite right, ignores the needs of the end users, and looks too much like the code conventions we’ve been trying to move away from (for example). Yes you can prompt your way out of that, but by the time you have you could have written the code yourself. I have never been able to use a large output directly from an LLM. They’re useful for starting from nothing or tickling your brain when you’re blocked on something, but they’re nowhere near making me wonder what I’m doing with my life. There’s so much more to software than code. I get that the final implementation is code, but the path to that delivery is incredibly complex. Especially with existing code belonging to relatively non technical teams. They need a real human to connect to them, their history, current and future needs, nuances of the teams’s capabilities, etc. AI is nowhere near serving teams like this, and I have a hard time imagining when that would change.

ein0p 2y ago

Really? It automates the extremely boring and low skill part of your job and you "feel sick"? I feel pretty great about getting to focus on the actual problem rather than on boilerplate.

Borg3 2y ago
No, you are absolutly wrong. If you would automate it yourself then its correct way of doing thing. You learn by the process, increasting your skill. But no, you choosed to do automation by AI, so you become nothing more that a frontend to put data in. Also, you are slowly loosing control about stuff you doing. I know, todays engineering culture is weird. Dont ask questions, its not of your concern, etc.. I wonder when that stuff finaly collapse.
- nuancebydefault 2y ago
  I find it weird that people talk like that. Did you even try to make something (e.g. a side project) with the help of AI? AI is doing amazing things for me. If i feel i'm out of control because some parts of the generated code i don't understand, i just let it explain me, even ELI5 if that would be needed. If the explanation doesn't make sense,or it does make sense but it is not where i want to be heading, i point that out and the AI corrects the problem, or explains what the options are. Together we come to a more concise solution. I'm really amazed/confused why people talk like that about AI.
  - Borg3 2y ago
    No, I have no reason to use it. I have piles of my own programs, notes, docs. If I need to do sth, I can refer to those. In worst case, I have to use search engine to grab info with is immediatly mirrored. If it works for you, thats great. But its interesting people do NOT see danger, when its actually too late. Maybe ask AI about it ? ;)
    - nuancebydefault 2y ago
      I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. I understand that people see danger, but in fact there is no other option for us than to follow evolution. All major companies are embracing AI already and it's being used/pushed upon their customers as well. There's danger in copying stackoverflow code as-is as well. But would that mean we should not use info that is shared on SO? > In worst case, I have to use search engine to grab info with is immediatly mirrored. I've never heard anyone saying they use a search engine "as a last resort" >I have piles of my own programs, notes, docs. For me, working that way would only succeed if I would need to repeat a project that is say 90 percent the same as any of the hundreds of previous projects, and stay with a programming language like C or fortran. But if it works for you, great as well.

somethoughts 2y ago

My hot take is that GPT is getting better everyday at generating complicated and correct code that's maintainable, but its still got quite a ways to go. On the other hand today it's already passably good at generating stuff that requires less precision and less accuracy (i.e. humanities type stuff, marketing, managerial/secretarial tasks, etc.). So while you might be looking at your own CS job eventually being in jeopardy, whole swaths of alternative careers you aren't looking at are probably way, way more in jeopardy.

stavros 2y ago
> My hot take is that GPT is getting better everyday Really? My experience is that it gets better every release (every few months to a year) and then gradually worse until the next release.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  It the business model of a great demo to get people to signup and reduce resources each release to make it lose less money. Rise and repeat. Meanwhile the free version is trying to keep up with other vender so they are forced to give away more and the difference between the two versions (paid/free) after a period of time favours the free. version

bravetraveler 2y ago

The boilerplate stuff is just that, boilerplate. It should be able to pump out drivel utility code. It doesn't change The real value is Doing Useful Stuff with the code, written by you, your LSP, or AI. The robots only take the jobs we give them. I don't give them code, more using LLMs as a sort of consultant with the pathological urge to lie and please.

steve_adams_86 2y ago
The pathological urge to please is incredibly obnoxious. Imagine an AI that could tell you your idea is shitty and be right. That would be awesome.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  Seriously, a simple "sorry - that API doesn't actually exist, it's going to have to be The Hard Way" Not make up a completely nonsensical API that just so happens to be a direct path to my query