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I want to believe you but until the price range becomes below $1000 or so there’s virtually no market. It’s a toy. People don’t need a teleportation device. It’

I want to believe you but until the price range becomes below $1000 or so there’s virtually no market. It’s a toy. People don’t need a teleportation device. It’s fun to play with, like a toy. It doesn’t really solve enough of a “real” problem to justify the current cost. It’s also too expensive to be given as a holiday or birthday gift by most family members. I believe the “just give it a few years thing” but only if it has a footnote saying that “few” could mean 10 or 15. I don’t think anyone really knows.

aurareturn 2y ago
I think it will have a market at $2000. MacBook Pros are 50% of Mac sales and they start at $2000.
- maeil 2y ago
  What % of those sales are companies buying them for their employees? It's almost a B2B market. Whereas the Vision Pro is overwhelmingly B2C, at least it will be with the current state of the technology. Hence very different pricing dynamics.
  - aurareturn 2y ago
    I didn’t say it will sell as much as MacBook Pros as soon as it hits $2000. I’m saying there will be a market. They need to get the weight and price down substantially.
    - ffgjgf1 2y ago
      > I’m saying there will be a market. Perhaps, but how is the price or popularity of MacBook pros particularly related to that?
      - aurareturn 2y ago
        That a fairly large market exists for $2000+ Apple device.
- freetanga 2y ago
  You can use them (MBPs) to actually make money. AVPs mostly make money to 2-bit YouTube influencers making videos about it…
  - aurareturn 2y ago
    Well, a $5000 80” TV doesn’t make you money either.
    - wtetzner 2y ago
      I think the Vision Pro needs to be as comfortable and convenient to use as a TV, or it needs to be cheaper. And/or it needs a new killer app. It's sitting in a weird place right now where it's too expensive for what you get, but it's fairly easy to imagine how it could improve to become something much more attractive/popular.
- trustno2 2y ago
  MBP returns you the investment pretty soon
- epolanski 2y ago
  MBPs are overwhelmingly bought by businesses for their employees.
staplers 2y ago
until the price range becomes below $1000 or so there’s virtually no market. Probably because it's cheaper to fly and literally be somewhere and actually enjoy it rather than exist there for a minute or two and then get bored.
- Iulioh 2y ago
  I mean, once for one place, if you are able bodied and have a week of vacation. I feel like there's a difference...
  - staplers 2y ago
    I feel like there's a difference... You're getting close to my point
    - Iulioh 2y ago
      At this point is basically quantity vs quality. And plus, visiting again some places could lead to ruin the previous good memory. That's the reason to take photos, is not like someone would argue that for them..
- what 2y ago
  Where can you vacation for $1000?
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Spend a week camping at a state park nearby with the family. About $40 in transportation costs round trip for the whole family. Maybe $200 in food/snacks/other consumables. $70 for the yearly parks pass+ $15/night for campsite = $175. If I don't already have camping supplies, I can get decently kitted out for the family for this kind of camping for like $400. It'll last me a bunch of trips but let's assume you've got nothing. So that's like $815 for the first time, $415 every other time.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
Iulioh 2y ago
I pretty much feel like the vision pro is overkill for the tasks it wants to do. For a newbie a meta quest 3 is more than enough. Index or meta quest pro? That's the shit. But i liked the battery begin a separate thing from the headset himself, i think that's good user design.
Simon_ORourke 2y ago
> It doesn’t really solve enough of a “real” problem to justify the current cost Exactly this, for now the minimal use cases for these kinds of high-end VR headsets leave them firmly in the "gimmick" category. I'm pretty sure some mass-market use case will be found for them, maybe even outside of gaming, but the fact that some pretty smart people haven't found this one already is a teensey-tiny bit worrying too.
- Towaway69 2y ago
  By what the OP describes, these devices could become a limited but perhaps “profound” replacement for flying thousands of kms to have a holiday. Or to have “power holidays” similar to a Power Nap, where you use an VR/AR device to relive a holiday for 5/10 mins. Or to have “preview holidays” to experience a destination before booking a flight there. If travel agents still existed, then they would be a perfect market for these VR devices but travel agents have long gone the way of the dinosaurs.
  - davkan 2y ago
    That all sounds very depressing to me if I’m being honest.
    - Towaway69 2y ago
      So are the regular news concerning the destruction of the environment and our human caused climate change. If a VR set can reduce travel, then that might be something positive for the environment.
      - davkan 2y ago
        I think there’s lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions than swapping the annual family vacation for a bunch of VR headsets. By all means if you’re willing to make that sacrifice be my guest, but I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset.
bberenberg 2y ago
If Apple could make the UX of the physical device a bit better and had a larger library of places to explore I would absolutely give it to my grandma. She’s mostly stuck in a her flat alone all day. Walking is hard. She FaceTimes and calls people, but going to see beauty is mostly something she doesn’t get to experience anymore. If she could watch a sunrise in Hawaii instead of worrying about political news I think her day to day would be much better and I would be happy to spend the money to give her that QoL improvement.
- passion__desire 2y ago
  GoPro Fusion devices to record walking videos and serve in Vision Pro would be amazing for location bound people
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
A 386 PC cost $3000+ after the 486 was released. Sometimes I think our expectations for dirt cheap supercomputers are out of whack.
- concinds 2y ago
  This isn't a "supercomputer". It's not even a computer. It's a locked-down device, with very few tailored apps and content (for now anyway).
  - doix 2y ago
    Yeah, but that's because it's Apple. If the same hardware was made by pretty much anyone else, I'd probably be interested. It's like the iPad Pro. It could probably replace my laptop if it could run real Linux. If the community had free reign to do whatever with the hardware, it would be much more than a toy. Someone would port SimulaVR (or a different window manager) and it would feel like a real computing device. I can imagine a world where I travel with one of those headsets and a wireless keyboard. Then I can setup shop anywhere and do development work in a cloud environment. The headset just being a dumb terminal to render the terminal or whatever. It really feels like we are only a few years away from that being reality. I really want the apple headset to succeed, so that other companies invest in open/hackable hardware.
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    Every multi-GHz multicore computing device today would place on the Top500 in the 90s. Your phone is a handheld supercomputer.
- haswell 2y ago
  The context matters a lot. Early PCs were released at a time when there wasn’t really anything else like these products. That early pricing reflected the creation of a brand new category. The Vision Pro is a remarkable piece of tech, but isn’t required to achieve many of the use cases it supports, and people are primarily paying for the immersive experience. Given that, spending $3K on immersion in a market where a few hundred dollars will buy you most of the non-immersion capabilities is quite different than spending $3K on an early PC.
Terretta 2y ago
> Until the price range becomes below $1000 or so there’s virtually no market. It’s a toy. People don’t need a teleportation device. It’s fun to play with, like a toy. It doesn’t really solve enough of a “real” problem to justify the current cost. This argument seems valid to anyone that hasn't browsed "The Sharper Image" catalog in the back of an airline seat, or even the "high end" showroom at a Best Buy. There's been a huge market for >70" TVs since mid 2010s, costing $3,500 - $10,000 US for much of that timeframe. Today you'd have to compare to 100" class: https://www.amazon.com/100-inch-tv/s?k=100+inch+tv&s=price-desc-rank https://www.amazon.com/100-inch-tv/s?k=100+inch+tv&s=price-d... All your objections would certainly apply. It's a toy. People don't need it. It's fun, but doesn't solve a "real" problem. It's too expensive to be given as a gift. AVP offers a >240" screen, and fully immersive 3D. It needs very little to make movie watching a shared experience in the same room, or with friends far away. Priced solely against a TV, people have proven happy to pay for entertainment toys. If the initial OOTB release had supported "seeing" someone watching the same content "with" you in Disney's theater or the VR spaces, this buying segment would have taken more interest.
- LaGrange 2y ago
  > AVP offers a >240" screen, and fully immersive 3D. It needs very little to make movie watching a shared experience in the same room, or with friends far away. It actively gets in the way of cuddling in person, and doesn't help when away. Meanwhile I've had great experiences watching things together on a phone screen. If away, bluntly, with good friends a laptop screen and a shared stream via Jellyfin works _amazing_. Like c'mon. The size of the screen is a fetish for people who think it's the screens fault that their hangout isn't emotionally impactful.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  Well you need something entertaining to do with it. Right now the use cases seem to be just looking at pictures and watching videos alone. Or extending your computer monitor. There isn't even that much 3D content. Nobody really seems to care about movies and shows being in 3D. It's basically a $3000 portable monitor. Not entertaining.
- conductr 2y ago

aurareturn 2y ago

I think it will have a market at $2000. MacBook Pros are 50% of Mac sales and they start at $2000.

maeil 2y ago
What % of those sales are companies buying them for their employees? It's almost a B2B market. Whereas the Vision Pro is overwhelmingly B2C, at least it will be with the current state of the technology. Hence very different pricing dynamics.
- aurareturn 2y ago
  I didn’t say it will sell as much as MacBook Pros as soon as it hits $2000. I’m saying there will be a market. They need to get the weight and price down substantially.
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    > I’m saying there will be a market. Perhaps, but how is the price or popularity of MacBook pros particularly related to that?
    - aurareturn 2y ago
      That a fairly large market exists for $2000+ Apple device.
freetanga 2y ago
You can use them (MBPs) to actually make money. AVPs mostly make money to 2-bit YouTube influencers making videos about it…
- aurareturn 2y ago
  Well, a $5000 80” TV doesn’t make you money either.
  - wtetzner 2y ago
    I think the Vision Pro needs to be as comfortable and convenient to use as a TV, or it needs to be cheaper. And/or it needs a new killer app. It's sitting in a weird place right now where it's too expensive for what you get, but it's fairly easy to imagine how it could improve to become something much more attractive/popular.
trustno2 2y ago
MBP returns you the investment pretty soon
epolanski 2y ago
MBPs are overwhelmingly bought by businesses for their employees.

staplers 2y ago

until the price range becomes below $1000 or so there’s virtually no market. Probably because it's cheaper to fly and literally be somewhere and actually enjoy it rather than exist there for a minute or two and then get bored.

Iulioh 2y ago
I mean, once for one place, if you are able bodied and have a week of vacation. I feel like there's a difference...
- staplers 2y ago
  I feel like there's a difference... You're getting close to my point
  - Iulioh 2y ago
    At this point is basically quantity vs quality. And plus, visiting again some places could lead to ruin the previous good memory. That's the reason to take photos, is not like someone would argue that for them..
what 2y ago
Where can you vacation for $1000?
- vel0city 2y ago
  Spend a week camping at a state park nearby with the family. About $40 in transportation costs round trip for the whole family. Maybe $200 in food/snacks/other consumables. $70 for the yearly parks pass+ $15/night for campsite = $175. If I don't already have camping supplies, I can get decently kitted out for the family for this kind of camping for like $400. It'll last me a bunch of trips but let's assume you've got nothing. So that's like $815 for the first time, $415 every other time.
- vlovich123 2y ago

Iulioh 2y ago

I pretty much feel like the vision pro is overkill for the tasks it wants to do. For a newbie a meta quest 3 is more than enough. Index or meta quest pro? That's the shit. But i liked the battery begin a separate thing from the headset himself, i think that's good user design.

Simon_ORourke 2y ago

> It doesn’t really solve enough of a “real” problem to justify the current cost Exactly this, for now the minimal use cases for these kinds of high-end VR headsets leave them firmly in the "gimmick" category. I'm pretty sure some mass-market use case will be found for them, maybe even outside of gaming, but the fact that some pretty smart people haven't found this one already is a teensey-tiny bit worrying too.

Towaway69 2y ago
By what the OP describes, these devices could become a limited but perhaps “profound” replacement for flying thousands of kms to have a holiday. Or to have “power holidays” similar to a Power Nap, where you use an VR/AR device to relive a holiday for 5/10 mins. Or to have “preview holidays” to experience a destination before booking a flight there. If travel agents still existed, then they would be a perfect market for these VR devices but travel agents have long gone the way of the dinosaurs.
- davkan 2y ago
  That all sounds very depressing to me if I’m being honest.
  - Towaway69 2y ago
    So are the regular news concerning the destruction of the environment and our human caused climate change. If a VR set can reduce travel, then that might be something positive for the environment.
    - davkan 2y ago
      I think there’s lower hanging fruit for reducing carbon emissions than swapping the annual family vacation for a bunch of VR headsets. By all means if you’re willing to make that sacrifice be my guest, but I can’t imagine experiencing Venice through a headset.

bberenberg 2y ago

If Apple could make the UX of the physical device a bit better and had a larger library of places to explore I would absolutely give it to my grandma. She’s mostly stuck in a her flat alone all day. Walking is hard. She FaceTimes and calls people, but going to see beauty is mostly something she doesn’t get to experience anymore. If she could watch a sunrise in Hawaii instead of worrying about political news I think her day to day would be much better and I would be happy to spend the money to give her that QoL improvement.

passion__desire 2y ago
GoPro Fusion devices to record walking videos and serve in Vision Pro would be amazing for location bound people

kevin_thibedeau 2y ago

A 386 PC cost $3000+ after the 486 was released. Sometimes I think our expectations for dirt cheap supercomputers are out of whack.

concinds 2y ago
This isn't a "supercomputer". It's not even a computer. It's a locked-down device, with very few tailored apps and content (for now anyway).
- doix 2y ago
  Yeah, but that's because it's Apple. If the same hardware was made by pretty much anyone else, I'd probably be interested. It's like the iPad Pro. It could probably replace my laptop if it could run real Linux. If the community had free reign to do whatever with the hardware, it would be much more than a toy. Someone would port SimulaVR (or a different window manager) and it would feel like a real computing device. I can imagine a world where I travel with one of those headsets and a wireless keyboard. Then I can setup shop anywhere and do development work in a cloud environment. The headset just being a dumb terminal to render the terminal or whatever. It really feels like we are only a few years away from that being reality. I really want the apple headset to succeed, so that other companies invest in open/hackable hardware.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  Every multi-GHz multicore computing device today would place on the Top500 in the 90s. Your phone is a handheld supercomputer.
haswell 2y ago
The context matters a lot. Early PCs were released at a time when there wasn’t really anything else like these products. That early pricing reflected the creation of a brand new category. The Vision Pro is a remarkable piece of tech, but isn’t required to achieve many of the use cases it supports, and people are primarily paying for the immersive experience. Given that, spending $3K on immersion in a market where a few hundred dollars will buy you most of the non-immersion capabilities is quite different than spending $3K on an early PC.

Terretta 2y ago

> Until the price range becomes below $1000 or so there’s virtually no market. It’s a toy. People don’t need a teleportation device. It’s fun to play with, like a toy. It doesn’t really solve enough of a “real” problem to justify the current cost. This argument seems valid to anyone that hasn't browsed "The Sharper Image" catalog in the back of an airline seat, or even the "high end" showroom at a Best Buy. There's been a huge market for >70" TVs since mid 2010s, costing $3,500 - $10,000 US for much of that timeframe. Today you'd have to compare to 100" class: https://www.amazon.com/100-inch-tv/s?k=100+inch+tv&s=price-desc-rank https://www.amazon.com/100-inch-tv/s?k=100+inch+tv&s=price-d... All your objections would certainly apply. It's a toy. People don't need it. It's fun, but doesn't solve a "real" problem. It's too expensive to be given as a gift. AVP offers a >240" screen, and fully immersive 3D. It needs very little to make movie watching a shared experience in the same room, or with friends far away. Priced solely against a TV, people have proven happy to pay for entertainment toys. If the initial OOTB release had supported "seeing" someone watching the same content "with" you in Disney's theater or the VR spaces, this buying segment would have taken more interest.

LaGrange 2y ago
> AVP offers a >240" screen, and fully immersive 3D. It needs very little to make movie watching a shared experience in the same room, or with friends far away. It actively gets in the way of cuddling in person, and doesn't help when away. Meanwhile I've had great experiences watching things together on a phone screen. If away, bluntly, with good friends a laptop screen and a shared stream via Jellyfin works _amazing_. Like c'mon. The size of the screen is a fetish for people who think it's the screens fault that their hangout isn't emotionally impactful.
olyjohn 2y ago
Well you need something entertaining to do with it. Right now the use cases seem to be just looking at pictures and watching videos alone. Or extending your computer monitor. There isn't even that much 3D content. Nobody really seems to care about movies and shows being in 3D. It's basically a $3000 portable monitor. Not entertaining.
conductr 2y ago