3 ms·

Those Greek Riots

10 points by fallentimes 18y ago

maryrosecook 18y ago
This is a very strange summary. The history of Greece - both the current protests and the political history described in the article - are simply another playing out of some common patterns: The US meddles in a country, a military dictatorship rises, the country is exploited, student protests follow. (e.g. most of the countries in South America.) Mainstream politics undergoes a homogenisation: the number of influential political parties goes down, the policies of the remaining parties become more closely aligned. (e.g. England.) Riots are sparked by a specific event, but are actually caused by socio-econonic divisions. (e.g. Paris.) I've just made some horrible generalisations. However, the linked article offers no insight into the particular situation in Greece. History is briefly explained but then disregarded (the military government). General conclusions are drawn without any real evidence (riots in response to poverty). The current events described are linked to something that is getting a lot of headlines (the credit crunch).
- tptacek 18y ago
  I'm not sure I'd just blow off Kaplan to make a general, superficial point about American crypto-imperialism. In the absence of other evidence I'm going to assume his argument is armed with more facts and analysis than yours. Peter Moskos has been writing about the Greek riots for a few weeks now --- http://www.petermoskos.com http://www.petermoskos.com --- and the picture he paints make the situation in Greece sound very different from student riots in South America (and also different from Kaplan's somewhat alarmist take).
  - maryrosecook 18y ago
    I'm sorry, perhaps I phrased my critique poorly. I wasn't trying to make any points about the particular situation in Greece. I was trying to say that, yes, the author cites some facts, but that he disregards the stuff he provides evidence for (the political situation is Greece over the last forty years), then draws conclusions that he doesn't provide evidence for (the circumstances that have brought about the current riots).
alexandros 18y ago
What a strange thing for a Greek to read on hacker news. Being in Athens I must say the riots have certainly subsided by now and a semblance of normality is back on the streets, at least until the holidays are out. Other than that, the analysis was pretty good if simplified to fit the size of the article. One thing that does not come out is that the youth is very leftist, very much against privatization and market solutions, perhaps due to the horible way this has gone in the past. Although I personally would hope for a libertarian direction, I am in a very tiny sliver of the population. In all honesty, between state ownership and a capitalism beholden to a small number of powerful families, I am not sure what is worse. It's hard to tell if greece is a 'last of the mohicans' kind of country where the social fabric is still strong and therefore a lot of 'law and order' policies where the govt cracks down on the people are less tolerated, or if it is a first of a new phase of unrest all over europe and the world. Time will tell I guess.

10 points by fallentimes 18y ago

This is a very strange summary. The history of Greece - both the current protests and the political history described in the article - are simply another playing out of some common patterns: The US meddles in a country, a military dictatorship rises, the country is exploited, student protests follow. (e.g. most of the countries in South America.) Mainstream politics undergoes a homogenisation: the number of influential political parties goes down, the policies of the remaining parties become more closely aligned. (e.g. England.) Riots are sparked by a specific event, but are actually caused by socio-econonic divisions. (e.g. Paris.) I've just made some horrible generalisations. However, the linked article offers no insight into the particular situation in Greece. History is briefly explained but then disregarded (the military government). General conclusions are drawn without any real evidence (riots in response to poverty). The current events described are linked to something that is getting a lot of headlines (the credit crunch).

tptacek 18y ago
I'm not sure I'd just blow off Kaplan to make a general, superficial point about American crypto-imperialism. In the absence of other evidence I'm going to assume his argument is armed with more facts and analysis than yours. Peter Moskos has been writing about the Greek riots for a few weeks now --- http://www.petermoskos.com http://www.petermoskos.com --- and the picture he paints make the situation in Greece sound very different from student riots in South America (and also different from Kaplan's somewhat alarmist take).
- maryrosecook 18y ago
  I'm sorry, perhaps I phrased my critique poorly. I wasn't trying to make any points about the particular situation in Greece. I was trying to say that, yes, the author cites some facts, but that he disregards the stuff he provides evidence for (the political situation is Greece over the last forty years), then draws conclusions that he doesn't provide evidence for (the circumstances that have brought about the current riots).

alexandros 18y ago

What a strange thing for a Greek to read on hacker news. Being in Athens I must say the riots have certainly subsided by now and a semblance of normality is back on the streets, at least until the holidays are out. Other than that, the analysis was pretty good if simplified to fit the size of the article. One thing that does not come out is that the youth is very leftist, very much against privatization and market solutions, perhaps due to the horible way this has gone in the past. Although I personally would hope for a libertarian direction, I am in a very tiny sliver of the population. In all honesty, between state ownership and a capitalism beholden to a small number of powerful families, I am not sure what is worse. It's hard to tell if greece is a 'last of the mohicans' kind of country where the social fabric is still strong and therefore a lot of 'law and order' policies where the govt cracks down on the people are less tolerated, or if it is a first of a new phase of unrest all over europe and the world. Time will tell I guess.