4 ms·

I'm not convinced that's actually the dominant factor. The market share for EVs is still small enough that there's no real shortage of buyers. But it turns out

by o11c 2y ago

I'm not convinced that's actually the dominant factor. The market share for EVs is still small enough that there's no real shortage of buyers. But it turns out that having a hundred years of domain experience building cars actually matters for something. Tesla cars have had a lot of avoidable failures on technical merits.

givemeethekeys 2y ago
As far as ICE vehicles go, most mechanics will advise you to lease a BMW / Audi over buying one. After 60k miles, the maintenance costs and electrical gremlins are noticeably frequent. German EV's are probably better built - fewer electrical issues over a longer duration (I hope), and fewer moving parts to replace. I think this is a product differentiation / segmentation problem. People who wanted the current Tesla offering are being outnumbered by people who want buttons / information displayed front and center.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ghaff 2y ago
  I've never owned one but the folk wisdom I've always heard is to have a good foreign car indie mechanic (or do a lot of your your own work I guess) or just plan on keeping a BMW/Audi/etc. to the end of the warranty period because dealer bills add up fast afterwards.
- coryfklein 2y ago
  Surely the dealers leasing those vehicles are factoring cost of maintenance into the lease, no?
  - Too 2y ago
    See it as an insurance. It's not likely something will break, if you are the unlucky one though, those spare parts aren't cheap. A dealer can distribute that risk over many more cars.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  Even if German cars don't last, when they roll off the assembly line, they don't have panel gaps and loose or missing parts. There's also a difference in brand positioning. If I know nothing except the car one drives, driving a Tesla, BMW, Audi or Mercedes conjures up different stereotypes in my mind. Which manufacturer wpuld you associate with the following: a Senior VP at Goldman, a petrolhead who does occasional track days, a Bitcoin millionaire, a suburban mom, a FAANG L5 SWE in the SF Bay?
  - givemeethekeys 2y ago
    Your reasoning is based on 5 year old data. A lot has changed since then.
leesec 2y ago
Hasn't seemed to matter for sales or profit. Every big oem loses money on their cars. Hows that for an avoidable failure
bdcravens 2y ago
The case for me was that it was a strong influence, but not the only factor. I cancelled my Model 3 order due to some of Elon's actions and words, but I was already on the fence due to concerns about quality, etc. If it had been a slam dunk purchase, probably would have followed through (there are products I still purchase despite terrible politics of the owner/company)
Mistletoe 2y ago
We cancelled ours when he tweeted and insinuated there were valid reasons for someone sneaking into the Pelosi house and hitting her husband in the head with a hammer. It would have been our second Tesla purchase and now we have none. Could not imagine being associated with Elon in any way and certainly not in the car I drive around.
- serial_dev 2y ago
  The article is about European sales though. I know some European people are obsessed with American politics as if there was nothing worth discussing that's European, but the number of people who knows and cares about whatever happened at Nancy Pelosi's house, then knows what Elon had to say about that, then deciding it's so egregious that they can't buy a Tesla anymore it's probably single digits.
  - socksy 2y ago
    Elon is not exactly beloved in Europe either, for all sorts of non Pelosi related reasons
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    > The article is about European sales though. Which is probably the main point. It's well known that American companies sell a higher proportion of their cars in America than in Europe and vice versa. That a foreign company was ever outselling domestic producers in a region with a large automotive industry is an unusual and generally short-lived phenomenon.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    Musk's comments know no border, the EU also gets to enjoy his wisdom on highly sensitive subjects: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/elon-musk-wades-into-german-debate-over-migration-2023-09-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/elon-musk-wades-into-ge... Along with X's well adjusted moderation policies: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/elon-musk-gives-gold-checkmark-to-holocaust-denier/ar-BB1hj43y?ocid=BingNewsVerp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/elon-musk-gives-gold-ch... I'm sure the Germans are thrilled with all of it.

by o11c 2y ago

givemeethekeys 2y ago

As far as ICE vehicles go, most mechanics will advise you to lease a BMW / Audi over buying one. After 60k miles, the maintenance costs and electrical gremlins are noticeably frequent. German EV's are probably better built - fewer electrical issues over a longer duration (I hope), and fewer moving parts to replace. I think this is a product differentiation / segmentation problem. People who wanted the current Tesla offering are being outnumbered by people who want buttons / information displayed front and center.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ghaff 2y ago
I've never owned one but the folk wisdom I've always heard is to have a good foreign car indie mechanic (or do a lot of your your own work I guess) or just plan on keeping a BMW/Audi/etc. to the end of the warranty period because dealer bills add up fast afterwards.
coryfklein 2y ago
Surely the dealers leasing those vehicles are factoring cost of maintenance into the lease, no?
- Too 2y ago
  See it as an insurance. It's not likely something will break, if you are the unlucky one though, those spare parts aren't cheap. A dealer can distribute that risk over many more cars.
sangnoir 2y ago
Even if German cars don't last, when they roll off the assembly line, they don't have panel gaps and loose or missing parts. There's also a difference in brand positioning. If I know nothing except the car one drives, driving a Tesla, BMW, Audi or Mercedes conjures up different stereotypes in my mind. Which manufacturer wpuld you associate with the following: a Senior VP at Goldman, a petrolhead who does occasional track days, a Bitcoin millionaire, a suburban mom, a FAANG L5 SWE in the SF Bay?
- givemeethekeys 2y ago
  Your reasoning is based on 5 year old data. A lot has changed since then.

leesec 2y ago

Hasn't seemed to matter for sales or profit. Every big oem loses money on their cars. Hows that for an avoidable failure

bdcravens 2y ago

The case for me was that it was a strong influence, but not the only factor. I cancelled my Model 3 order due to some of Elon's actions and words, but I was already on the fence due to concerns about quality, etc. If it had been a slam dunk purchase, probably would have followed through (there are products I still purchase despite terrible politics of the owner/company)

Mistletoe 2y ago

We cancelled ours when he tweeted and insinuated there were valid reasons for someone sneaking into the Pelosi house and hitting her husband in the head with a hammer. It would have been our second Tesla purchase and now we have none. Could not imagine being associated with Elon in any way and certainly not in the car I drive around.

serial_dev 2y ago
The article is about European sales though. I know some European people are obsessed with American politics as if there was nothing worth discussing that's European, but the number of people who knows and cares about whatever happened at Nancy Pelosi's house, then knows what Elon had to say about that, then deciding it's so egregious that they can't buy a Tesla anymore it's probably single digits.
- socksy 2y ago
  Elon is not exactly beloved in Europe either, for all sorts of non Pelosi related reasons
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  > The article is about European sales though. Which is probably the main point. It's well known that American companies sell a higher proportion of their cars in America than in Europe and vice versa. That a foreign company was ever outselling domestic producers in a region with a large automotive industry is an unusual and generally short-lived phenomenon.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  Musk's comments know no border, the EU also gets to enjoy his wisdom on highly sensitive subjects: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/elon-musk-wades-into-german-debate-over-migration-2023-09-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/elon-musk-wades-into-ge... Along with X's well adjusted moderation policies: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/elon-musk-gives-gold-checkmark-to-holocaust-denier/ar-BB1hj43y?ocid=BingNewsVerp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/elon-musk-gives-gold-ch... I'm sure the Germans are thrilled with all of it.