4 ms·

HN really needs to turn off that regex that removes the word “how” from the beginning of article titles.

redbell 2y ago
Strongly advocate for this! Another word that automatically got removed from the title is why and this happened to me a lot. The system should, at least, notify you that the title has been edited. Fortunately, you can re-edit the title and bring back what was removed.
Quekid5 2y ago
Somewhat ironically one of the best examples of absurdly awful UI/UX because someone decided they know best.
- TylerE 2y ago
  Far from the worst accessibility thing just on HN. I will now beat the “grey in slightly darker grey” is not an acceptable color scheme drum again.
  - krapp 2y ago
    You know perfectly well Hacker news is the apex of efficiency and minimalism, and that "good hackers" don't care about trivial nonsense like "accessibility" or "readability" or "user experience," only the purity of signal over noise. Now go to the blackboard and reverse binary trees until you've learned your lesson.
    - badsectoracula 2y ago
      Considering the site uses a bunch of CSS classes that end up always using the same visual style (e.g. black text), i'd say that "good hackers" can use Stylus or some other similar addon and customize the site's look. You can do a lot of customization with it, while overall my HN looks 90% the same as the default style (since i don't dislike it), i have done some customizations like making every other comment have a slightly darker background (to easily distinguish them when scrolling) and added some color to distinguish different parts of each post.
      - ndriscoll 2y ago
        You don't even need to be a "good hacker". Just go into browser settings, set your preferred colors, and set it to disallow sites from setting their own colors (mobile browsers seem to have removed this functionality for some reason, but desktop ones still have it).
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    If you happen to have a CSS manager such as Stylus installed: <https://pastebin.com/gLXiqKyd https://pastebin.com/gLXiqKyd> (That's what I'm driving now.)
    - theendisney 2y ago
      Just closing the page would be the usual approach. As no one uses such poor contrast it does reflect poorly on yc. If someone forces a tiny font on me (i cant read it) I try zoom like the way you read pdf on mobile but it dramatically/needlessly raises the bar for how interesting the text needs to be.
      - dredmorbius 2y ago
        I agree with most of that. I find HN ... mostly ... more worthwhile than not. The styling / UI/UX is abysmal. That said, if you've the option to install a CSS style manager on your platform(s) of choice (Firefox desktop or Android, Chrome and Safari desktop), you have agency to change the situation and I've provided the styling to fix most of your major gripes (which are also mine). And that said, I've said that which I care to.
- aaron695 2y ago
  [dead]
KTibow 2y ago
Idk, "people with disabilities use the web" still matches up with the content of the article to me
- Quekid5 2y ago
  The "how" is the thing that adds interest in this case. We are hopefully all cognizant of the fact that disabled people exist and (need to) use the web.
  - chipsrafferty 2y ago
    We might be aware, but companies don't seem to care, so it's still a fitting title.
  - kerkeslager 2y ago
    Given my experience, I don't think we all are. I've basically resigned myself to not being paid for accessibility work. Nowadays I refuse to work in toolchains that don't easily support accessibility (i.e. if Kivy is the frontend) because that tells me a) accessibility wasn't considered in tool choice, and b) I'm going to have to do a lot more unpaid work to follow my own conscience.
CharlesW 2y ago
For HNers who don’t already know this, you can edit immediately after submission to fix meaning-changing auto-edits.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  And as I've suggested previously to dang: ALERTING SUBMITTERS THAT CHANGES HAVE BEEN APPLIED, and requesting confirmation, would be A VERY GOOD THING.
userbinator 2y ago
"Yes, they do," was my first thought upon seeing the article title.
kerkeslager 2y ago
I mean, possibly, but I feel like a lot of HN needs to hear the message that people with disabilities use the web. :)
squigz 2y ago
@dang Can we fix this title so we might get some topical discussion on it going?
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  "@dang" is a no-op: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450>
  - squigz 2y ago
    Well I don't have any other way of trying to get his attention :)
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      That's not what the link provided advises.
      - squigz 2y ago
        Fair enough. Keeping in line with this thread, I didn't click the link and just reacted to the 'title' ;)
dredmorbius 2y ago
Email requests to the mods at hn@ycombinator.com. I've done so in this case. Re: downstream comments, "@dang" is a no-op: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450>
dang 2y ago
I think it does more good than harm. The trouble is that the good cases pass without notice whereas the bad cases attract attention. By that standard, literally any feature is a bad thing.
- krapp 2y ago
  >The trouble is that the good cases pass without notice whereas the bad cases attract attention. No, the trouble is the bad cases attract attention. >By that standard, literally any feature is a bad thing. That's specious reasoning, because that isn't the standard. The standard is signal over noise. The script cut one word out of the title, which changed the context of the title enough that it spawned confusion and what is now the biggest subthread here. The bulk of conversation under TPA is about this issue, not the subject at hand. When it works correctly, does it add to the quality of conversation more so than its failures detract? I don't think so. When it works it doesn't matter, and when it fails everything goes off the rails. If you have to have this feature, just add a confirmation step. And maybe at least check that the canonical URL is different than the posted URL and confirm that, too. Yes it means added complexity, but so did the features themselves. Minimalism doesn't mean you have to cut your nose off to spite your face.

Strongly advocate for this! Another word that automatically got removed from the title is why and this happened to me a lot. The system should, at least, notify you that the title has been edited. Fortunately, you can re-edit the title and bring back what was removed.

Quekid5 2y ago

Somewhat ironically one of the best examples of absurdly awful UI/UX because someone decided they know best.

TylerE 2y ago
Far from the worst accessibility thing just on HN. I will now beat the “grey in slightly darker grey” is not an acceptable color scheme drum again.
- krapp 2y ago
  You know perfectly well Hacker news is the apex of efficiency and minimalism, and that "good hackers" don't care about trivial nonsense like "accessibility" or "readability" or "user experience," only the purity of signal over noise. Now go to the blackboard and reverse binary trees until you've learned your lesson.
  - badsectoracula 2y ago
    Considering the site uses a bunch of CSS classes that end up always using the same visual style (e.g. black text), i'd say that "good hackers" can use Stylus or some other similar addon and customize the site's look. You can do a lot of customization with it, while overall my HN looks 90% the same as the default style (since i don't dislike it), i have done some customizations like making every other comment have a slightly darker background (to easily distinguish them when scrolling) and added some color to distinguish different parts of each post.
    - ndriscoll 2y ago
      You don't even need to be a "good hacker". Just go into browser settings, set your preferred colors, and set it to disallow sites from setting their own colors (mobile browsers seem to have removed this functionality for some reason, but desktop ones still have it).
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  If you happen to have a CSS manager such as Stylus installed: <https://pastebin.com/gLXiqKyd https://pastebin.com/gLXiqKyd> (That's what I'm driving now.)
  - theendisney 2y ago
    Just closing the page would be the usual approach. As no one uses such poor contrast it does reflect poorly on yc. If someone forces a tiny font on me (i cant read it) I try zoom like the way you read pdf on mobile but it dramatically/needlessly raises the bar for how interesting the text needs to be.
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      I agree with most of that. I find HN ... mostly ... more worthwhile than not. The styling / UI/UX is abysmal. That said, if you've the option to install a CSS style manager on your platform(s) of choice (Firefox desktop or Android, Chrome and Safari desktop), you have agency to change the situation and I've provided the styling to fix most of your major gripes (which are also mine). And that said, I've said that which I care to.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]

KTibow 2y ago

Idk, "people with disabilities use the web" still matches up with the content of the article to me

Quekid5 2y ago
The "how" is the thing that adds interest in this case. We are hopefully all cognizant of the fact that disabled people exist and (need to) use the web.
- chipsrafferty 2y ago
  We might be aware, but companies don't seem to care, so it's still a fitting title.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  Given my experience, I don't think we all are. I've basically resigned myself to not being paid for accessibility work. Nowadays I refuse to work in toolchains that don't easily support accessibility (i.e. if Kivy is the frontend) because that tells me a) accessibility wasn't considered in tool choice, and b) I'm going to have to do a lot more unpaid work to follow my own conscience.

CharlesW 2y ago

For HNers who don’t already know this, you can edit immediately after submission to fix meaning-changing auto-edits.

dredmorbius 2y ago
And as I've suggested previously to dang: ALERTING SUBMITTERS THAT CHANGES HAVE BEEN APPLIED, and requesting confirmation, would be A VERY GOOD THING.

userbinator 2y ago

"Yes, they do," was my first thought upon seeing the article title.

kerkeslager 2y ago

I mean, possibly, but I feel like a lot of HN needs to hear the message that people with disabilities use the web. :)

squigz 2y ago

@dang Can we fix this title so we might get some topical discussion on it going?

dredmorbius 2y ago
"@dang" is a no-op: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450>
- squigz 2y ago
  Well I don't have any other way of trying to get his attention :)
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    That's not what the link provided advises.
    - squigz 2y ago
      Fair enough. Keeping in line with this thread, I didn't click the link and just reacted to the 'title' ;)

dredmorbius 2y ago

Email requests to the mods at hn@ycombinator.com. I've done so in this case. Re: downstream comments, "@dang" is a no-op: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450>

dang 2y ago

I think it does more good than harm. The trouble is that the good cases pass without notice whereas the bad cases attract attention. By that standard, literally any feature is a bad thing.

krapp 2y ago
>The trouble is that the good cases pass without notice whereas the bad cases attract attention. No, the trouble is the bad cases attract attention. >By that standard, literally any feature is a bad thing. That's specious reasoning, because that isn't the standard. The standard is signal over noise. The script cut one word out of the title, which changed the context of the title enough that it spawned confusion and what is now the biggest subthread here. The bulk of conversation under TPA is about this issue, not the subject at hand. When it works correctly, does it add to the quality of conversation more so than its failures detract? I don't think so. When it works it doesn't matter, and when it fails everything goes off the rails. If you have to have this feature, just add a confirmation step. And maybe at least check that the canonical URL is different than the posted URL and confirm that, too. Yes it means added complexity, but so did the features themselves. Minimalism doesn't mean you have to cut your nose off to spite your face.