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This is probably not a great idea due to the difference in capabilities at work. For instance, they can get big corporations to cooperate and offer them indemni

by chc 14y ago

This is probably not a great idea due to the difference in capabilities at work. For instance, they can get big corporations to cooperate and offer them indemnity, while you can't. Even more importantly, their ability to lock you up and smack you around with a pipe wrench when they catch you spying greatly exceeds your ability to do the same to them.

mindcrime 14y ago
Doesn't matter, somebody still needs to do it. I mean, if you look back at the American Revolution, you'd have been nuts to bet on the revolutionaries, right? At some point it becomes simply a matter of principle and you accept the consequences, hoping it leads to a better day in the future. I'm not eager to go out as a martyr, but with every passing day I'm closer and closer to saying "fuck it" and accepting that that may happen anyway. But, then again, I've always been a bit of a radical and a hot-head.
- chc 14y ago
  The American leaders had an endgame planned. "Let's spy on them" is not an endgame. Unless it's part of a much more detailed plan, I don't think the comparison holds up. Spying on your own government is more akin to a couple of 18th-century Americans saying, "Hey, I know, let's go shoot a couple of British soldiers." Outside the context of a revolution, it's only good at getting you killed.
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    Outside the context of a revolution, The point is, doing it, and the resulting fallout, may be part of what it takes to instigate a revolution. And, to be honest, I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that it's going to take a revolution to fix the problems with the American government... I still hold onto a little bit of faith in the democratic process, but it's fading.
    - dkulchenko 14y ago
      And, to be honest, I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that it's going to take a revolution to fix the problems with the American government... Likewise; though is a U.S. revolution even remotely possible in this day and age?
      - mindcrime 14y ago
        It's hard to say. And I have mixed feelings about saying "I hope so" or "I hope not." On the one hand, I think freedom is it's own end, and that we have sacrificed far too much and given our government way too much power, and that it'll take a revolution to roll things back a bit. But, I sure hate the idea of a bloody armed revolution and all the death and suffering that would entail. sigh I dunno man, I just don't know...
      - glanch 14y ago
        No, it is not. We are too big, too diverse, too smart, too dumb, too divided, too comfortable. Look at election numbers. Less than half the population votes, and the voters are pretty much always 50/50 divided. Not to mention the major sources of media are controlled by the rich. Pretty damn perfect recipe for suppression of any kind of popular uprising. The "next big change" will come from an external source not an internal one.

by chc 14y ago

mindcrime 14y ago

Doesn't matter, somebody still needs to do it. I mean, if you look back at the American Revolution, you'd have been nuts to bet on the revolutionaries, right? At some point it becomes simply a matter of principle and you accept the consequences, hoping it leads to a better day in the future. I'm not eager to go out as a martyr, but with every passing day I'm closer and closer to saying "fuck it" and accepting that that may happen anyway. But, then again, I've always been a bit of a radical and a hot-head.

chc 14y ago
The American leaders had an endgame planned. "Let's spy on them" is not an endgame. Unless it's part of a much more detailed plan, I don't think the comparison holds up. Spying on your own government is more akin to a couple of 18th-century Americans saying, "Hey, I know, let's go shoot a couple of British soldiers." Outside the context of a revolution, it's only good at getting you killed.
- mindcrime 14y ago
  Outside the context of a revolution, The point is, doing it, and the resulting fallout, may be part of what it takes to instigate a revolution. And, to be honest, I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that it's going to take a revolution to fix the problems with the American government... I still hold onto a little bit of faith in the democratic process, but it's fading.
  - dkulchenko 14y ago
    And, to be honest, I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that it's going to take a revolution to fix the problems with the American government... Likewise; though is a U.S. revolution even remotely possible in this day and age?
    - mindcrime 14y ago
      It's hard to say. And I have mixed feelings about saying "I hope so" or "I hope not." On the one hand, I think freedom is it's own end, and that we have sacrificed far too much and given our government way too much power, and that it'll take a revolution to roll things back a bit. But, I sure hate the idea of a bloody armed revolution and all the death and suffering that would entail. sigh I dunno man, I just don't know...
    - glanch 14y ago
      No, it is not. We are too big, too diverse, too smart, too dumb, too divided, too comfortable. Look at election numbers. Less than half the population votes, and the voters are pretty much always 50/50 divided. Not to mention the major sources of media are controlled by the rich. Pretty damn perfect recipe for suppression of any kind of popular uprising. The "next big change" will come from an external source not an internal one.