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I wish I understood the root cause of why places like SF and Oakland have given up on policing. Is it an ideological thing (think Chesa Boudin & co), where kee

I wish I understood the root cause of why places like SF and Oakland have given up on policing. Is it an ideological thing (think Chesa Boudin & co), where keeping people accountable for antisocial behavior is considered a form of oppression from a more fortunate class? Or is it more of an issue with there being too much bureaucracy to be able to push any change to policing through? Or are the voters simply too eager to continue this existing self-own, and will vote for more restorative justice as the cost of their own quality of life? The pattern seems to repeat across a lot of the more desirable parts of California like San Francisco and Santa Monica, and I wish I understood it better. Everybody's got their hot take.

brigadier132 2y ago
It's ideology fueled by fabricated science. Things like drug and petty crime decriminalization have just completely failed at achieving their goals and these policies were backed by studies that have consistently failed to replicate. The people behind these things are serious hard core ideologues. Remember Chesa Boudin? His parents were literal communist terrorists that murdered a cop while robbing a bank (when I say this I'm not misusing the term communist like many Americans do). How does someone like that become a DA?
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  > How does someone like that become a DA? Presumably by going to law school, doing work in the DA's office, and eventually campaigning for election. His track record as DA notwithstanding, I think it should be obvious that the crimes of the parents are not the crimes of the child, and I think it's kinda funny that you'd make that claim in a thread about policing actual crime.
  - brigadier132 2y ago
    > that the crimes of the parents are not the crimes of the child Yeah, this is some more idealistic nonsense. Children should obviously not be criminally persecuted for being the child of evil people but being the child of and raised by terrorists (and other evil people) should automatically disqualify you from certain jobs. Given Chesa Boudin's actual track record and the fact he was recalled I think history proves my point. > I think it's kinda funny that you'd make that claim in a thread about policing actual crime. Why do you think it's funny? Chesa Boudin is directly responsible for the lack of policing due to his refusal to enforce the law as DA. Do you not know why he was recalled?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > being the child of and raised by terrorists (and other evil people) should automatically disqualify you from certain jobs Wat.
      - brigadier132 2y ago
        You think that the children of dictators, mass murderers and terrorists should be allowed to be politicians? Here's a question for you, would you vote for the child of a KKK member?
        8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
        Here's a counter-example from the real world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > would you vote for the child of a KKK member? Idk. Depends on what they believe. Plenty of kids of Nazis and Confederates became upstanding citizens.
    - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
      > Why do you think it's funny? Because we're talking about policing actual crime and you're talking about punishing people who haven't committed any crime at all. > Given Chesa Boudin's actual track record and the fact he was recalled I think history proves my point. I don't think you can make the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" argument when the tree is "bank robber" and the apple is "made questionable policy decisions as DA."
_fat_santa 2y ago
Its not one thing but a combination of factors. - Police budgets getting slashed and police forces being reduced. - Legislation like Prop47 (which made shoplifting of goods < $950 a misdemeanor). - Progressive DA's refusing to prosecute low level crimes. Individually all these changes aren't so bad and make sense on paper, but put them together in practice and it's a recipe for disaster. If you're a criminal thinking about robbing a store in SF for example, you know that: 1. The police likely won't show up so you likely won't get caught 2. Even if you do get caught, as long as you stole < $950, you get a slap on the wrist and the DA won't prosecute the crime. Personally I think CA needs a "3 strikes" style law for low level petty crimes like shoplifting. The problem I keep hearing is that even if someone gets arrested for shoplifting, they are back out on the street the next day and there's no greater punishment for repeat offenders, so as a result you get a small group of people that do most of the crime and get arrested 50+ times per year with no consequence besides getting locked up for one night (at most).
- creer 2y ago
  > - Police budgets getting slashed and police forces being reduced. I sure hope that lack of budget is not the problem in San Francisco! It's a HUGE and very well funded thank you very much police force. One thing you didn't mention is that it's a police force with its own political opinions and actions. Another thing is that it's one at war with a large part of the population.

brigadier132 2y ago

It's ideology fueled by fabricated science. Things like drug and petty crime decriminalization have just completely failed at achieving their goals and these policies were backed by studies that have consistently failed to replicate. The people behind these things are serious hard core ideologues. Remember Chesa Boudin? His parents were literal communist terrorists that murdered a cop while robbing a bank (when I say this I'm not misusing the term communist like many Americans do). How does someone like that become a DA?

brendoelfrendo 2y ago
> How does someone like that become a DA? Presumably by going to law school, doing work in the DA's office, and eventually campaigning for election. His track record as DA notwithstanding, I think it should be obvious that the crimes of the parents are not the crimes of the child, and I think it's kinda funny that you'd make that claim in a thread about policing actual crime.
- brigadier132 2y ago
  > that the crimes of the parents are not the crimes of the child Yeah, this is some more idealistic nonsense. Children should obviously not be criminally persecuted for being the child of evil people but being the child of and raised by terrorists (and other evil people) should automatically disqualify you from certain jobs. Given Chesa Boudin's actual track record and the fact he was recalled I think history proves my point. > I think it's kinda funny that you'd make that claim in a thread about policing actual crime. Why do you think it's funny? Chesa Boudin is directly responsible for the lack of policing due to his refusal to enforce the law as DA. Do you not know why he was recalled?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > being the child of and raised by terrorists (and other evil people) should automatically disqualify you from certain jobs Wat.
    - brigadier132 2y ago
      You think that the children of dictators, mass murderers and terrorists should be allowed to be politicians? Here's a question for you, would you vote for the child of a KKK member?
      - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
        Here's a counter-example from the real world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > would you vote for the child of a KKK member? Idk. Depends on what they believe. Plenty of kids of Nazis and Confederates became upstanding citizens.
  - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
    > Why do you think it's funny? Because we're talking about policing actual crime and you're talking about punishing people who haven't committed any crime at all. > Given Chesa Boudin's actual track record and the fact he was recalled I think history proves my point. I don't think you can make the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" argument when the tree is "bank robber" and the apple is "made questionable policy decisions as DA."

_fat_santa 2y ago

Its not one thing but a combination of factors. - Police budgets getting slashed and police forces being reduced. - Legislation like Prop47 (which made shoplifting of goods < $950 a misdemeanor). - Progressive DA's refusing to prosecute low level crimes. Individually all these changes aren't so bad and make sense on paper, but put them together in practice and it's a recipe for disaster. If you're a criminal thinking about robbing a store in SF for example, you know that: 1. The police likely won't show up so you likely won't get caught 2. Even if you do get caught, as long as you stole < $950, you get a slap on the wrist and the DA won't prosecute the crime. Personally I think CA needs a "3 strikes" style law for low level petty crimes like shoplifting. The problem I keep hearing is that even if someone gets arrested for shoplifting, they are back out on the street the next day and there's no greater punishment for repeat offenders, so as a result you get a small group of people that do most of the crime and get arrested 50+ times per year with no consequence besides getting locked up for one night (at most).

creer 2y ago
> - Police budgets getting slashed and police forces being reduced. I sure hope that lack of budget is not the problem in San Francisco! It's a HUGE and very well funded thank you very much police force. One thing you didn't mention is that it's a police force with its own political opinions and actions. Another thing is that it's one at war with a large part of the population.