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I'll totally accept you're speaking just in the context of the USA but... > The fact that some people actually truly believe "free government housing" is going

I'll totally accept you're speaking just in the context of the USA but... > The fact that some people actually truly believe "free government housing" is going to be "decent" is absolutely tragic Council houses are fairly highly regarded in the UK (i.e. the property, in terms of space, light, build quality. The estates/tenants, not so much...). They also have a track record of maintaining them far better than private/social landlords - I can personally attest to that. It is the large homebuilder companies that build truly awful, "tragic" homes, cutting every single possible corner imaginable for an extra penny of profit.

Alupis 2y ago
Wikipedia indicates most of these Council Homes were built in the early 1900's - and are not modern construction. An additional average of a around 100 homes total were built per year from the 40's through 1980. So these don't appear to be helping a significant portion of the population. Wikipedia also indicates in the 1970's the UK government dramatically and suddenly cut back on funding for these homes (among other things), which led to some very poor living conditions. Your quality of life being dependent on the whims of politicians and budgets outside-your-control seems awful...
- switch007 2y ago
  I note you don't link to your sources. You need better sources and/or better research skills. 100 per year is way off. Have you confused 100 with 100,000? I think even that is low Yes the Conservatives stopped building council homes, mostly through neoliberal ideology that the government shouldn't provide housing. The private market houses are far worse quality
  - chgs 2y ago
    The number of new council house starts dropped in the 70s, before thatcher. The trend continued into the 80s but blaming thatcher and neoliberalism is simplistic at best. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/datasets/ukhousebuildingpermanentdwellingsstartedandcompleted https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/... Table 2A, housing starts by FY. 1970 185k. 110k in 1978/79 before thatcher’s landslide. By 1980 (so before the 1980 housing act came in) down to 58k. The starts are what’s important as those are the ones impacted by new legislation and policy.
    - switch007 2y ago
      From your source, this is the number dwellings "Completed - Local Authorities" from 1979 to 1997: 89,630 (1979) 88,540 68,330 40,080 39,170 37,580 30,410 25,380 21,820 21,450 19,350 17,870 11,230 5,700 3,360 2,880 3,440 1,740 1,550 (1997) You're going to claim the Conservatives of that era didn't stop building council houses? Compare with the 18 year period before Thatcher: 119,350 (1961) 132,070 126,240 156,830 167,300 179,170 202,860 190,670 182,380 179,280 157,380 122,360 104,570 124,140 152,470 153,750 145,070 113,660 (1978) > By 1980 (so before the 1980 housing act came in) down to 58k. I don't recognise this 58k. What is the exact cell of that number?
      - chgs 2y ago
        Starts are important, not completions, when looking at policy impact. I added local authority and housing associations together as they are basically the same concept.
        switch007 2y ago
        Oh you moved the goalposts. Got it. Council houses and housing associations are completely different. Have you ever lived in either? I have
        chgs 2y ago
        Fine, just have local authority numbers then which halved from 175k in the decade before thatcher was elected, let alone had any chance to implement policy. She didn’t reverse the trend, but she didn’t start it.
- lmm 2y ago
  > Your quality of life being dependent on the whims of politicians and budgets outside-your-control seems awful... More or less awful than being dependent on the whims of rich rentiers and impersonal market forces? At least politicians have some accountability to the poor who can vote them out.

Alupis 2y ago

Wikipedia indicates most of these Council Homes were built in the early 1900's - and are not modern construction. An additional average of a around 100 homes total were built per year from the 40's through 1980. So these don't appear to be helping a significant portion of the population. Wikipedia also indicates in the 1970's the UK government dramatically and suddenly cut back on funding for these homes (among other things), which led to some very poor living conditions. Your quality of life being dependent on the whims of politicians and budgets outside-your-control seems awful...

switch007 2y ago
I note you don't link to your sources. You need better sources and/or better research skills. 100 per year is way off. Have you confused 100 with 100,000? I think even that is low Yes the Conservatives stopped building council homes, mostly through neoliberal ideology that the government shouldn't provide housing. The private market houses are far worse quality
- chgs 2y ago
  The number of new council house starts dropped in the 70s, before thatcher. The trend continued into the 80s but blaming thatcher and neoliberalism is simplistic at best. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/datasets/ukhousebuildingpermanentdwellingsstartedandcompleted https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/... Table 2A, housing starts by FY. 1970 185k. 110k in 1978/79 before thatcher’s landslide. By 1980 (so before the 1980 housing act came in) down to 58k. The starts are what’s important as those are the ones impacted by new legislation and policy.
  - switch007 2y ago
    From your source, this is the number dwellings "Completed - Local Authorities" from 1979 to 1997: 89,630 (1979) 88,540 68,330 40,080 39,170 37,580 30,410 25,380 21,820 21,450 19,350 17,870 11,230 5,700 3,360 2,880 3,440 1,740 1,550 (1997) You're going to claim the Conservatives of that era didn't stop building council houses? Compare with the 18 year period before Thatcher: 119,350 (1961) 132,070 126,240 156,830 167,300 179,170 202,860 190,670 182,380 179,280 157,380 122,360 104,570 124,140 152,470 153,750 145,070 113,660 (1978) > By 1980 (so before the 1980 housing act came in) down to 58k. I don't recognise this 58k. What is the exact cell of that number?
    - chgs 2y ago
      Starts are important, not completions, when looking at policy impact. I added local authority and housing associations together as they are basically the same concept.
      - switch007 2y ago
        Oh you moved the goalposts. Got it. Council houses and housing associations are completely different. Have you ever lived in either? I have
        chgs 2y ago
        Fine, just have local authority numbers then which halved from 175k in the decade before thatcher was elected, let alone had any chance to implement policy. She didn’t reverse the trend, but she didn’t start it.
lmm 2y ago
> Your quality of life being dependent on the whims of politicians and budgets outside-your-control seems awful... More or less awful than being dependent on the whims of rich rentiers and impersonal market forces? At least politicians have some accountability to the poor who can vote them out.