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That doesn't pay. Pulling over a citizen with a job and citing them for speeding is a much more lucrative use of their time. Both are against the law, so they'r

That doesn't pay. Pulling over a citizen with a job and citing them for speeding is a much more lucrative use of their time. Both are against the law, so they're doing their job either way. Kind of. Although as another commenter noted, I've noticed they've become strangely lax about even citing moving violations since Covid. Makes you wonder what they are even doing, then.

bobbylarrybobby 2y ago
They realized that solving crimes pays just as well as playing candy crush, and the latter is less effort and more fun
- creer 2y ago
  And in some places, even traffic is too much (possibly prompted by "but covid" at some point and working out just fine for some.) https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_francisco_traffic_citations_20142023/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_f... There was / is also the effective strike against DAs and courts.
mindslight 2y ago
I don't even think that it's lucrative per se, but rather that it's straightforward. Cop sits there playing candy crush, magical radar artifact makes a noise, they look up, chase down that car, then check a box on a pre-printed citation where they don't even have to think about which law to cite. But (real example) same road, clearly marked as trucks prohibited from left two lanes - a shed larger than many houses meanders by in the third lane, hanging well over into both the second and leftmost lanes - where do they even start? If the cop even happened to look up from their phone at the right time, they'd have to figure out which specific laws are being broken, how to cite them, what to take down as evidence, probably show up to the court date themselves, etc. So the actual hazardous moving violation goes unpoliced meanwhile every driver merely going the prevailing speed of the road has to spend a large part of their attention looking out for highway robbers laying in wait.
- creer 2y ago
  Traffic tickets also nicely fit quotas. Even while they don't exist. While it might take a while until a package actually gets stolen under while they look. And they can't look while they are filling out paperwork (about traffic tickets :-)
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Pulling over a citizen with a job and citing them for speeding is a much more lucrative use of their time The solution may be in segregating the police from the traffic cops. Policework is dangerous and specialised. Its officers need a lot of training and good pay. Traffic cops are basically humans trained to be cameras, inasmuchas 90% of what they do can be automated.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
  The US is strangely staunchly opposed to traffic cameras, whereas you barely ever see cops on the roads in many EU countries, and yet traffic tickets flow abundantly.
  - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
    If you eliminate the need for traffic cops, you need to accept that the "important" police work of criminal investigation and civil protection requires specialized training and skills (and probably more pay). American police departments aren't that; they're jobs programs with badges and guns.
  - bityard 2y ago
    It's not strange at all. Driving is dangerous enough as it is. Adding the extra anxiety of getting lit up by a speed-limit camera for accidentally exceeding the speed limit does not make it safer. Plus, we Americans are inventive. If there were no traffic cops, the wealthy and mischievous would simply modify their cars to hide their license plates when driving past speeding cameras on their normal route.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > the wealthy and mischievous would simply modify their cars to hide their license plates when driving past speeding cameras on their normal route This is a good way to meet the local police in any jurisdiction with cameras. We hate speed cameras because Americans like to speed. There is a minority that is privacy focussed. But the majority hate it because most we drive unsafely [1]. [1] https://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/02/87-percent-of-drivers-engage-in-unsafe-behaviors-while-behind-the-wheel/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/02/87-percent-of-drivers-engag...
stahtops 2y ago
My understanding is that moving violations are perceived as high risk, low reward. (1) The stop is dangerous because you don't know who the vehicle occupants are. If the driver is medium bad and runs, the public has low appetite for high speed pursuits that may cause collateral damage or put the public in danger. There's also the chance it's a very bad guy... someone in a stolen vehicle with a warrant out for a murder charge. Are they going to just give up and come quietly? Probably not. (2) For a given region there is a list of things that the DA and/or judges are perceived as being soft on. There's little/no appetite from LEO to apprehend bad guy who is just going to be back out on the street a short time later. So to the LEO, you want me to pull people over for speeding, but if it's a medium bad person they flee -> no pursuit allowed, and if it's a very bad person maybe they attack me? No thx, I'll wait for dispatch to call. https://www.police1.com/traffic-patrol/articles/police-research-1000-cops-address-non-compliance-during-traffic-stops-C3mPToqhCR2O4Dxu/#form-success-message https://www.police1.com/traffic-patrol/articles/police-resea... https://www.wcax.com/2022/01/13/prosecutor-takes-aim-chittenden-county-traffic-stops/ https://www.wcax.com/2022/01/13/prosecutor-takes-aim-chitten... https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2021/06/stop-start-or-continue-a-national-survey-of-the-police.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2021/06/stop-start-or-c...
- bluGill 2y ago
  > the public has low appetite for high speed pursuits Police officers should be training in high speed pursuits. This training exists and means they never happen (there are a number of things that if the police know mean there are no high speed chases - but they need a lot of training)
bko 2y ago
They're also not doing that either. Something else is going on https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_francisco_traffic_citations_20142023/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_f...

bobbylarrybobby 2y ago

They realized that solving crimes pays just as well as playing candy crush, and the latter is less effort and more fun

creer 2y ago
And in some places, even traffic is too much (possibly prompted by "but covid" at some point and working out just fine for some.) https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_francisco_traffic_citations_20142023/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_f... There was / is also the effective strike against DAs and courts.

mindslight 2y ago

I don't even think that it's lucrative per se, but rather that it's straightforward. Cop sits there playing candy crush, magical radar artifact makes a noise, they look up, chase down that car, then check a box on a pre-printed citation where they don't even have to think about which law to cite. But (real example) same road, clearly marked as trucks prohibited from left two lanes - a shed larger than many houses meanders by in the third lane, hanging well over into both the second and leftmost lanes - where do they even start? If the cop even happened to look up from their phone at the right time, they'd have to figure out which specific laws are being broken, how to cite them, what to take down as evidence, probably show up to the court date themselves, etc. So the actual hazardous moving violation goes unpoliced meanwhile every driver merely going the prevailing speed of the road has to spend a large part of their attention looking out for highway robbers laying in wait.

creer 2y ago
Traffic tickets also nicely fit quotas. Even while they don't exist. While it might take a while until a package actually gets stolen under while they look. And they can't look while they are filling out paperwork (about traffic tickets :-)

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Pulling over a citizen with a job and citing them for speeding is a much more lucrative use of their time The solution may be in segregating the police from the traffic cops. Policework is dangerous and specialised. Its officers need a lot of training and good pay. Traffic cops are basically humans trained to be cameras, inasmuchas 90% of what they do can be automated.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
The US is strangely staunchly opposed to traffic cameras, whereas you barely ever see cops on the roads in many EU countries, and yet traffic tickets flow abundantly.
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  If you eliminate the need for traffic cops, you need to accept that the "important" police work of criminal investigation and civil protection requires specialized training and skills (and probably more pay). American police departments aren't that; they're jobs programs with badges and guns.
- bityard 2y ago
  It's not strange at all. Driving is dangerous enough as it is. Adding the extra anxiety of getting lit up by a speed-limit camera for accidentally exceeding the speed limit does not make it safer. Plus, we Americans are inventive. If there were no traffic cops, the wealthy and mischievous would simply modify their cars to hide their license plates when driving past speeding cameras on their normal route.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > the wealthy and mischievous would simply modify their cars to hide their license plates when driving past speeding cameras on their normal route This is a good way to meet the local police in any jurisdiction with cameras. We hate speed cameras because Americans like to speed. There is a minority that is privacy focussed. But the majority hate it because most we drive unsafely [1]. [1] https://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/02/87-percent-of-drivers-engage-in-unsafe-behaviors-while-behind-the-wheel/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/02/87-percent-of-drivers-engag...

stahtops 2y ago

My understanding is that moving violations are perceived as high risk, low reward. (1) The stop is dangerous because you don't know who the vehicle occupants are. If the driver is medium bad and runs, the public has low appetite for high speed pursuits that may cause collateral damage or put the public in danger. There's also the chance it's a very bad guy... someone in a stolen vehicle with a warrant out for a murder charge. Are they going to just give up and come quietly? Probably not. (2) For a given region there is a list of things that the DA and/or judges are perceived as being soft on. There's little/no appetite from LEO to apprehend bad guy who is just going to be back out on the street a short time later. So to the LEO, you want me to pull people over for speeding, but if it's a medium bad person they flee -> no pursuit allowed, and if it's a very bad person maybe they attack me? No thx, I'll wait for dispatch to call. https://www.police1.com/traffic-patrol/articles/police-research-1000-cops-address-non-compliance-during-traffic-stops-C3mPToqhCR2O4Dxu/#form-success-message https://www.police1.com/traffic-patrol/articles/police-resea... https://www.wcax.com/2022/01/13/prosecutor-takes-aim-chittenden-county-traffic-stops/ https://www.wcax.com/2022/01/13/prosecutor-takes-aim-chitten... https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2021/06/stop-start-or-continue-a-national-survey-of-the-police.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2021/06/stop-start-or-c...

bluGill 2y ago
> the public has low appetite for high speed pursuits Police officers should be training in high speed pursuits. This training exists and means they never happen (there are a number of things that if the police know mean there are no high speed chases - but they need a lot of training)

bko 2y ago

They're also not doing that either. Something else is going on https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_francisco_traffic_citations_20142023/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_f...