3 ms·

> If a site is over https, then the only information I would think the ISP would have is the subscriber downloaded from randompiratesite.xyz what seems to be a

by loeg 2y ago

> If a site is over https, then the only information I would think the ISP would have is the subscriber downloaded from randompiratesite.xyz what seems to be a single X GiB file That isn't how torrent sites work. You visit site.xyz and download a .torrent file in the realm of 10s-100s (typically) of kB and that contains some metadata that a dedicated torrent client consumes. The torrent client connects to (1) some tracker via http (or https, but usually http) which may or may not be associated with the site the .torrent came from, to register as part of the swarm, and (2) any number of peer torrent clients. The actual data (X GiB) transfer comes from those peers; not the original site.xyz nor the tracker. ISPs can observe DNS lookups / connections to site.xyz; tracker "announces" (that's (1) above), especially if they are http. And even the peer-to-peer traffic has a distinct protocol which is recognizable with packet inspection. But the main avenue for finding offenders, I believe, is just downloading the same .torrents for some specific copyrighted content and using the torrents' associated tracker(s) to enumerate swarm peer IP addresses.

Hypnosis6173 2y ago
Thats not how piracy in germany works. Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Normally the pages either point to sites hosting a streamabale version of the video content or point to a external file hoster (e.g. Rapidgator).
- bonoboTP 2y ago
  > Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Obviously, because, as the chain of comments above your shows, torrent users are easily caught and get fined to hundreds of euros per downloaded movie. Then they stop using torrent and tell all their friends about the experience. This has been going on for more than a decade, maybe two. So by now, German culture has adapted and people don't use torrents.
  - yokaze 2y ago
    You don't get fined for downloading, you get cease-and-desist with a fine (?) from a lawyer representing the copyright owner for uploading. Downloading copyrighted is not illegal, offering is. You could try to argue technicalities in court, but that'll probably exceed the hundreds of Euro the copyright owner demands.
    - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
      That's a very technical nitpick — GP's general point ('Obviously, because, as the chain of comments above your shows, torrent users are easily caught and get fined to hundreds of euros per downloaded movie.') stands.
    - Ray20 2y ago
      Downloading via torrents by default implies distribution (from technical point of view).
      - threecheese 2y ago
        My understanding is that one can download without seeding/uploading; is this inaccurate?
        bonoboTP 2y ago
        Since the whole system relies on people seeding, even if this may be possible technically, clients don't tend to support it as a feature.
        yardstick 2y ago
        There are some services where you send a torrent file/magnet link and it’ll download the file for you, so you can download over HTTPS. I believe those particular services intentionally don’t reseed.
        yardstick 2y ago
        You are correct. Years ago I did exactly this by modifying my client to never seed/share, and also to fake my reported sharing stats so the private trackers wouldn’t boot me for failing to share. Those were the days. Now, I no longer fear the ISP or copyright holder chasing me (seems ISPS and laws moved on where I am) and don’t bother with modifications any more.
- looperhacks 2y ago
  You are downvoted, but from my experience, you are pretty correct. Most people I know will use a streaming site, then sharehosters (good old boerse comes to mind - Megaupload, Rapidshare and Uploaded were the big hosters I remember) I even know of more people using Usenet then torrents! The amount of work to use torrents safely just isn't worth it for most people.
  - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
    They are downvoted because it was an obvious and low-quality statement, as another comment outlined. Torrents publicly expose IPs and thus can be seen by copyright Nazis, but streaming/direct downloading has so far been safe.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      True but it is possible for them to capture one of these sites and go through the logs to check for IPs. So it would be best to use these with a VPN also. I'm not aware of this having happened for movie downloading but it has happened to data breach forums, the police in Holland have contacted some downloaders there after they took down a platform (raidforums): https://tweakers.net/nieuws/208638/politie-mailt-duizenden-nederlandse-gebruikers-van-raidforums-met-waarschuwing.html https://tweakers.net/nieuws/208638/politie-mailt-duizenden-n... (in Dutch, sorry) So it's not unprecedented and certainly within the legal realm of possibility even though this is a different country.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    > The amount of work to use torrents safely just isn't worth it for most people. Using a VPN isn't a lot of work really? And that's more than sufficient. It does cost a bit of money but so does a good Usenet server. The problem with Usenet is the DMCA takedowns so you have to be really quick these days, after a day the content is gone.
- loeg 2y ago
  This thread[1] is talking about torrents in particular. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41330098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41330098
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

by loeg 2y ago

Hypnosis6173 2y ago

Thats not how piracy in germany works. Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Normally the pages either point to sites hosting a streamabale version of the video content or point to a external file hoster (e.g. Rapidgator).

bonoboTP 2y ago
> Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Obviously, because, as the chain of comments above your shows, torrent users are easily caught and get fined to hundreds of euros per downloaded movie. Then they stop using torrent and tell all their friends about the experience. This has been going on for more than a decade, maybe two. So by now, German culture has adapted and people don't use torrents.
- yokaze 2y ago
  You don't get fined for downloading, you get cease-and-desist with a fine (?) from a lawyer representing the copyright owner for uploading. Downloading copyrighted is not illegal, offering is. You could try to argue technicalities in court, but that'll probably exceed the hundreds of Euro the copyright owner demands.
  - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    That's a very technical nitpick — GP's general point ('Obviously, because, as the chain of comments above your shows, torrent users are easily caught and get fined to hundreds of euros per downloaded movie.') stands.
  - Ray20 2y ago
    Downloading via torrents by default implies distribution (from technical point of view).
    - threecheese 2y ago
      My understanding is that one can download without seeding/uploading; is this inaccurate?
      - bonoboTP 2y ago
        Since the whole system relies on people seeding, even if this may be possible technically, clients don't tend to support it as a feature.
        yardstick 2y ago
        There are some services where you send a torrent file/magnet link and it’ll download the file for you, so you can download over HTTPS. I believe those particular services intentionally don’t reseed.
      - yardstick 2y ago
        You are correct. Years ago I did exactly this by modifying my client to never seed/share, and also to fake my reported sharing stats so the private trackers wouldn’t boot me for failing to share. Those were the days. Now, I no longer fear the ISP or copyright holder chasing me (seems ISPS and laws moved on where I am) and don’t bother with modifications any more.
looperhacks 2y ago
You are downvoted, but from my experience, you are pretty correct. Most people I know will use a streaming site, then sharehosters (good old boerse comes to mind - Megaupload, Rapidshare and Uploaded were the big hosters I remember) I even know of more people using Usenet then torrents! The amount of work to use torrents safely just isn't worth it for most people.
- tourmalinetaco 2y ago
  They are downvoted because it was an obvious and low-quality statement, as another comment outlined. Torrents publicly expose IPs and thus can be seen by copyright Nazis, but streaming/direct downloading has so far been safe.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    True but it is possible for them to capture one of these sites and go through the logs to check for IPs. So it would be best to use these with a VPN also. I'm not aware of this having happened for movie downloading but it has happened to data breach forums, the police in Holland have contacted some downloaders there after they took down a platform (raidforums): https://tweakers.net/nieuws/208638/politie-mailt-duizenden-nederlandse-gebruikers-van-raidforums-met-waarschuwing.html https://tweakers.net/nieuws/208638/politie-mailt-duizenden-n... (in Dutch, sorry) So it's not unprecedented and certainly within the legal realm of possibility even though this is a different country.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  > The amount of work to use torrents safely just isn't worth it for most people. Using a VPN isn't a lot of work really? And that's more than sufficient. It does cost a bit of money but so does a good Usenet server. The problem with Usenet is the DMCA takedowns so you have to be really quick these days, after a day the content is gone.
loeg 2y ago
This thread[1] is talking about torrents in particular. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41330098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41330098
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]