8 ms·

Ot of curiosity, how does this work? If a site is over https, then the only information I would think the ISP would have is the subscriber downloaded from rando

Ot of curiosity, how does this work? If a site is over https, then the only information I would think the ISP would have is the subscriber downloaded from randompiratesite.xyz what seems to be a single X GiB file. They could see that the size roughly corresponds to FooBar.mp4 on that site (plus some HTTP headers). But this seems pretty unreliable. (Like what if someone was using a download manager to get multiple large files at once, using multiple download streams per file?) I'm sure that you can get in plenty of trouble for downloading a ton of data from randompiratesite.xyz or whatever, but how the ISP determine the number of movies they've seen you download?

leafmeal 2y ago
If they're also downloading or seeding the torrent, the learn the IPs of their peers, so they know you were downloading that particular file.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yeah you can use peerblock/peerguardian, but in general there's no point. It's much less risky to simply use a VPN because there's always a risk that new IPs are not on the blocklist.
Semaphor 2y ago
It's not the sites, it's torrenting. Without a VPN, they get your IP, and you are on the hook for "commercial distribution" (as clients also upload) unless you pay X00 euros.
- rurban 2y ago
  Private torrenting is certainly not commercial distribution.
  - Semaphor 2y ago
    Tell that to our courts ;)
  - gruez 2y ago
    Commercial distribution isn't the only way you can violate copyrights
    - Semaphor 2y ago
      Just violating copyright wouldn't really matter. Damages would be tiny, and so would be what the lawyers can blackmail you for. It's being on the hook for the damages of distribution that gets the high fees.
      - Semaphor 2y ago
        Please tell me what's wrong about my comment instead of blindly downvoting, thank you.
        throwaway48540 2y ago
        It's simply not true, from my personal experience. Who cares it's tiny when it's still more than I want or can pay.
        Semaphor 2y ago
        You have personal experience with being sued for downloading without distribution in Germany?
        throwaway48540 2y ago
        I wasn't sued at the end of it, but nearly. Had to pay few hundred euro. Still sucked.
        Semaphor 2y ago
        Huh, that is super interesting, are you 100% certain it wasn’t torrents and thus including distribution? Hundreds of euros is crazy, that’s what people pay for distribution.
  - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    You should move to Germany and argue this exact point in front of a bored 54-year old regional judge (who does not own a smartphone) on a Wednesday afternoon.
loeg 2y ago
> If a site is over https, then the only information I would think the ISP would have is the subscriber downloaded from randompiratesite.xyz what seems to be a single X GiB file That isn't how torrent sites work. You visit site.xyz and download a .torrent file in the realm of 10s-100s (typically) of kB and that contains some metadata that a dedicated torrent client consumes. The torrent client connects to (1) some tracker via http (or https, but usually http) which may or may not be associated with the site the .torrent came from, to register as part of the swarm, and (2) any number of peer torrent clients. The actual data (X GiB) transfer comes from those peers; not the original site.xyz nor the tracker. ISPs can observe DNS lookups / connections to site.xyz; tracker "announces" (that's (1) above), especially if they are http. And even the peer-to-peer traffic has a distinct protocol which is recognizable with packet inspection. But the main avenue for finding offenders, I believe, is just downloading the same .torrents for some specific copyrighted content and using the torrents' associated tracker(s) to enumerate swarm peer IP addresses.
- Hypnosis6173 2y ago
  Thats not how piracy in germany works. Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Normally the pages either point to sites hosting a streamabale version of the video content or point to a external file hoster (e.g. Rapidgator).
  - bonoboTP 2y ago
    > Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Obviously, because, as the chain of comments above your shows, torrent users are easily caught and get fined to hundreds of euros per downloaded movie. Then they stop using torrent and tell all their friends about the experience. This has been going on for more than a decade, maybe two. So by now, German culture has adapted and people don't use torrents.
    - yokaze 2y ago
      You don't get fined for downloading, you get cease-and-desist with a fine (?) from a lawyer representing the copyright owner for uploading. Downloading copyrighted is not illegal, offering is. You could try to argue technicalities in court, but that'll probably exceed the hundreds of Euro the copyright owner demands.

leafmeal 2y ago

If they're also downloading or seeding the torrent, the learn the IPs of their peers, so they know you were downloading that particular file.

wkat4242 2y ago
Yeah you can use peerblock/peerguardian, but in general there's no point. It's much less risky to simply use a VPN because there's always a risk that new IPs are not on the blocklist.

Semaphor 2y ago

It's not the sites, it's torrenting. Without a VPN, they get your IP, and you are on the hook for "commercial distribution" (as clients also upload) unless you pay X00 euros.

rurban 2y ago
Private torrenting is certainly not commercial distribution.
- Semaphor 2y ago
  Tell that to our courts ;)
- gruez 2y ago
  Commercial distribution isn't the only way you can violate copyrights
  - Semaphor 2y ago
    Just violating copyright wouldn't really matter. Damages would be tiny, and so would be what the lawyers can blackmail you for. It's being on the hook for the damages of distribution that gets the high fees.
    - Semaphor 2y ago
      Please tell me what's wrong about my comment instead of blindly downvoting, thank you.
      - throwaway48540 2y ago
        It's simply not true, from my personal experience. Who cares it's tiny when it's still more than I want or can pay.
        Semaphor 2y ago
        You have personal experience with being sued for downloading without distribution in Germany?
        throwaway48540 2y ago
        I wasn't sued at the end of it, but nearly. Had to pay few hundred euro. Still sucked.
        Semaphor 2y ago
        Huh, that is super interesting, are you 100% certain it wasn’t torrents and thus including distribution? Hundreds of euros is crazy, that’s what people pay for distribution.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  You should move to Germany and argue this exact point in front of a bored 54-year old regional judge (who does not own a smartphone) on a Wednesday afternoon.

loeg 2y ago

> If a site is over https, then the only information I would think the ISP would have is the subscriber downloaded from randompiratesite.xyz what seems to be a single X GiB file That isn't how torrent sites work. You visit site.xyz and download a .torrent file in the realm of 10s-100s (typically) of kB and that contains some metadata that a dedicated torrent client consumes. The torrent client connects to (1) some tracker via http (or https, but usually http) which may or may not be associated with the site the .torrent came from, to register as part of the swarm, and (2) any number of peer torrent clients. The actual data (X GiB) transfer comes from those peers; not the original site.xyz nor the tracker. ISPs can observe DNS lookups / connections to site.xyz; tracker "announces" (that's (1) above), especially if they are http. And even the peer-to-peer traffic has a distinct protocol which is recognizable with packet inspection. But the main avenue for finding offenders, I believe, is just downloading the same .torrents for some specific copyrighted content and using the torrents' associated tracker(s) to enumerate swarm peer IP addresses.

Hypnosis6173 2y ago
Thats not how piracy in germany works. Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Normally the pages either point to sites hosting a streamabale version of the video content or point to a external file hoster (e.g. Rapidgator).
- bonoboTP 2y ago
  > Torrenting for german content is quite uncommon. Obviously, because, as the chain of comments above your shows, torrent users are easily caught and get fined to hundreds of euros per downloaded movie. Then they stop using torrent and tell all their friends about the experience. This has been going on for more than a decade, maybe two. So by now, German culture has adapted and people don't use torrents.
  - yokaze 2y ago
    You don't get fined for downloading, you get cease-and-desist with a fine (?) from a lawyer representing the copyright owner for uploading. Downloading copyrighted is not illegal, offering is. You could try to argue technicalities in court, but that'll probably exceed the hundreds of Euro the copyright owner demands.