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People frequently confuse freedom and consequences, but choices always have consequences in society. All schools have rules of conduct, if you violate them you
by tensor 2y ago
People frequently confuse freedom and consequences, but choices always have consequences in society.
All schools have rules of conduct, if you violate them your kid gets kicked out. Jobs also have rules of conduct, dress code, etc. And yes, not being vaccinated means you cannot have certain jobs.
The vaccine debate is really quite straight forward. On one side you have people arguing that vaccines might cause damage and they shouldn't be forced to take them. Of course, you are not forced to take them, but then those people argue that you shouldn't have consequences from it like losing your job or your kid getting kicked out of school.
On the other side, people argue that they shouldn't be forced to be exposed to someone who might cause them harm (by transmitting a preventable disease). This group also doesn't want negative consequences by having to hide from these people.
So the argument is similar from both groups, but the difference is that there is virtually no evidence of the harms the first group claims to want to avoid, while an abundance of factual evidence of the deaths of people and children caused by the lack of vaccines or by the spread of disease due to enough people not getting a vaccine.
Thus, as a society we choose to collectively put in a law siding with the second group. That's democracy.
edit: but I'll note that actuality in many cases people do get to send their unvaccinated kids to school and do end up killing other people's kids as a result. I wonder why we're talking about charging scientists with crimes and not people who do things we know with 100% certainty cause kids to die.
- miles 2y ago> there is virtually no evidence of the harms the first group claims to want to avoid There is not only evidence of harm: The Link Between J&J’s COVID Vaccine and Blood Clots: What You Need to Know https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-... Scientists discover 'smoking gun' link between AstraZeneca vaccine and lethal blood clots https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/02/scientists-discover-smoking-gun-link-astrazeneca-lethal-blood/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/02/scientists-disco... New Zealand links 26-year-old man's death to Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-links-26-year-old-mans-death-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-2021-12-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-links... but also lack of efficacy in stopping the spread: Coronavirus outbreak sidelines ship whose crew is fully immunized, Navy says https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/12/24/uss-milwaukee-covid-outbreak/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/12/24/... Covid cases hit records in South Korea and Singapore despite widespread vaccinations https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/world/covid-cases-hit-records-in-south-korea-and-singapore-despite-widespread-vaccinations.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/world/covid-cases-hit-rec... COVID Cases Are Surging in the Five Most Vaccinated States https://www.newsweek.com/covid-cases-are-surging-five-most-vaccinated-states-1653298 https://www.newsweek.com/covid-cases-are-surging-five-most-v...
- tensor 2y agoYou are clearly trolling as this has been beaten to death. But for the sake of other readers, getting COVID has a far higher chance of clots than the vaccines. Also, the vaccines significantly reduced the chance of death, even if they ultimately couldn’t stop the spread. So again, the big picture is extremely clear. Thankfully the right choices were made for society.
- matheusmoreira 2y agoYou're not wrong. Vaccines in general have a favorable risk/benefit ratio. The problem is I frequently see people on social media claiming that vaccines have zero risks and contraindications and that they do prevent transmission. I've seen governments saying that. This is the sort of disinformation that creates and spreads anti-vaccination ideas. All it takes is for someone to get skeptical and look it up. They will feel betrayed by the so called "authorities" and will never trust them again. It's even worse when said "authorities" want to vaccinate people forcefully as a matter of public policy. People don't enjoy having their autonomy disrespected. Especially comical are the governments that censor people for posting "fake news" only to end up spreading vaccine disinformation, and when it's pointed out they double down on those claims and do everything they can to coerce people into getting them.
- miles 2y ago> the vaccines significantly reduced the chance of death, even if they ultimately couldn’t stop the spread. Since you admit they couldn't stop the spread, why should the vaccines be mandated?
- tensor 2y agoTo stop people dying. Which they did and continue to do.
- miles 2y ago>> Since you admit they couldn't stop the spread, why should the vaccines be mandated? > To stop people dying. Then why should it be forced on an unwilling recipient? Any more than we'd force someone (on pain of losing their livelihood or worse) to give up unhealthy eating habits, unsafe activities, etc.?