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Let's break that down > very annoying Mildly annoying at best. And it's a screen you see once every few years at best. > Confusing Not any less confusing th

by jorvi 2y ago

Let's break that down > very annoying Mildly annoying at best. And it's a screen you see once every few years at best. > Confusing Not any less confusing than opening an app that requires a paid account, but with absolutely zero indication on how to attain said paid account (Apple's anti-steering rules for Netflix / Spotify / etc.) > Stressful If a simple browser screen stresses someone out, I fear for how they navigate the rest of their digital life. More importantly, what is anti-user is two tech giants using their market power to force companies and users into a duopoloy, in which they can then suck 30% out of every single bit of value created.

kibibu 2y ago
This is a very tech savvy opinion. Consider Grandpa, nervous about getting his first device, hearing that Macs are friendly, and then being faced with this decision. People who are not familiar with computing are often terrified of screwing it up.
- snowpid 2y ago
  Grandpa today has at max 80 years and went into pension 15 years. Almost all grandpa's got in touch with the internet during their working time
- jorvi 2y ago
  Grandpa also needs to do his banking online, his taxes, needs to manage his online identity, car registration, medical things. Most of these have terrible, cruddy, confusing interfaces. In the grand scheme of things, a one-time crystal-clear popup list where all he needs to do is press the familiar "red yellow green blue" (Chrome) icon is not what is going to stress him out or undo him.
  - cocoafleck 2y ago
    I was tempted not to respond, but honestly this comment makes me slightly angry. As someone who is young, and works on software this comment does not seem very worldly to me. Have you seen the US government, Japan, and other places struggling to still switch away from antiquated technologies? Yes, they are partially incompetent, but also there is a certain level of justifiable trust in the system working in its current form. > Grandpa also needs to do his banking online, his taxes, needs to manage his online identity, car registration, medical things. No, they don't. They can use paper, phone, and fax still (at least in the USA). One of my grandparent's did this until very recently (when they sadly passed away) for most things. I was at one point told by the same grandparent that the "the familiar 'red yellow green blue'" you so describe they suspected was a virus and they don't understand how it appeared on their computer. Another grandparent struggled with the concept of folders (as in file explorers), and when they first received their a phone would shut it down and then was confused on why it wouldn't receive phone calls. These people were successful and educated (they had gone to college and used their degrees in their professional life). They just don't care about technology and when Apple makes a choice for them on the default browser they are happy.
    - kwanbix 2y ago
      I don't know how it is in USA, but in EU, if you don't know how to use a phone as 2FA you are basically out of almost every bank. And more and more apps are adding it. TRy to login to gapps/gmail and you get a question if you want to setup a passkey or something like that.
      - kibibu 2y ago
        If you physically visit the bank you don't need 2fa. Also, you don't need email or passkeys. I have relatives who don't own or use smartphones.
        fragmede 2y ago
        Depends on the bank and what you're doing. I've had to read an SMS sent code to the bank employee in person to verify that I'm me.
    - jorvi 2y ago
      I’ve seen my 60yr old mother struggle through four different healthcare framework shifts in like 7 years. I fully understand the issue, and you’re selling your (grand)parents short. Keep your anger, you’re just wrong.
    - Yeul 2y ago
      My mom learned about internet banking because she had to. You'll be amazed what you can do when you don't have a choice!
skywhopper 2y ago
Annoyance is okay if there is value in it. This provides no value since 98% of users have no idea they are being asked. And I’ll bet 98% of the rest don’t know off the top of their head which mobile browser is best. The confusion in signing up for Netflix, Spotify etc is just as bad or worse, I agree! It’s bad for consumers to have confusing interfaces. If I’m trying to use my phone for the first time and I have to choose from a list of software I’ve never heard of, with no information about the impact of the decision, then if you aren’t stressed, you don’t realize the meaning of the choice, back to the confusion. I don’t think it’s anti-user to have a built-in web browser. Let’s regulate what the platforms can do with the data, sure, and force them to allow other options, yes. If it’s so valuable to own the default web browser in an OS then we are far too loose with what web browser vendors are allowed to do.

by jorvi 2y ago

kibibu 2y ago

This is a very tech savvy opinion. Consider Grandpa, nervous about getting his first device, hearing that Macs are friendly, and then being faced with this decision. People who are not familiar with computing are often terrified of screwing it up.

snowpid 2y ago
Grandpa today has at max 80 years and went into pension 15 years. Almost all grandpa's got in touch with the internet during their working time
jorvi 2y ago
Grandpa also needs to do his banking online, his taxes, needs to manage his online identity, car registration, medical things. Most of these have terrible, cruddy, confusing interfaces. In the grand scheme of things, a one-time crystal-clear popup list where all he needs to do is press the familiar "red yellow green blue" (Chrome) icon is not what is going to stress him out or undo him.
- cocoafleck 2y ago
  I was tempted not to respond, but honestly this comment makes me slightly angry. As someone who is young, and works on software this comment does not seem very worldly to me. Have you seen the US government, Japan, and other places struggling to still switch away from antiquated technologies? Yes, they are partially incompetent, but also there is a certain level of justifiable trust in the system working in its current form. > Grandpa also needs to do his banking online, his taxes, needs to manage his online identity, car registration, medical things. No, they don't. They can use paper, phone, and fax still (at least in the USA). One of my grandparent's did this until very recently (when they sadly passed away) for most things. I was at one point told by the same grandparent that the "the familiar 'red yellow green blue'" you so describe they suspected was a virus and they don't understand how it appeared on their computer. Another grandparent struggled with the concept of folders (as in file explorers), and when they first received their a phone would shut it down and then was confused on why it wouldn't receive phone calls. These people were successful and educated (they had gone to college and used their degrees in their professional life). They just don't care about technology and when Apple makes a choice for them on the default browser they are happy.
  - kwanbix 2y ago
    I don't know how it is in USA, but in EU, if you don't know how to use a phone as 2FA you are basically out of almost every bank. And more and more apps are adding it. TRy to login to gapps/gmail and you get a question if you want to setup a passkey or something like that.
    - kibibu 2y ago
      If you physically visit the bank you don't need 2fa. Also, you don't need email or passkeys. I have relatives who don't own or use smartphones.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        Depends on the bank and what you're doing. I've had to read an SMS sent code to the bank employee in person to verify that I'm me.
  - jorvi 2y ago
    I’ve seen my 60yr old mother struggle through four different healthcare framework shifts in like 7 years. I fully understand the issue, and you’re selling your (grand)parents short. Keep your anger, you’re just wrong.
  - Yeul 2y ago
    My mom learned about internet banking because she had to. You'll be amazed what you can do when you don't have a choice!

skywhopper 2y ago

Annoyance is okay if there is value in it. This provides no value since 98% of users have no idea they are being asked. And I’ll bet 98% of the rest don’t know off the top of their head which mobile browser is best. The confusion in signing up for Netflix, Spotify etc is just as bad or worse, I agree! It’s bad for consumers to have confusing interfaces. If I’m trying to use my phone for the first time and I have to choose from a list of software I’ve never heard of, with no information about the impact of the decision, then if you aren’t stressed, you don’t realize the meaning of the choice, back to the confusion. I don’t think it’s anti-user to have a built-in web browser. Let’s regulate what the platforms can do with the data, sure, and force them to allow other options, yes. If it’s so valuable to own the default web browser in an OS then we are far too loose with what web browser vendors are allowed to do.