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They're really banning almost everyone that dares speak up. I don't have any affiliation with the Python forums, but I'd like to just use this soapbox to at le

by yuye 2y ago

They're really banning almost everyone that dares speak up. I don't have any affiliation with the Python forums, but I'd like to just use this soapbox to at least air some of my worries as someone who is neurodivergent. I have to include the clause that this is not the universal neurodivergent experience. We're not a monolith. This is my own experience, but I don't feel like I am the only one. https://discuss.python.org/t/inclusive-communications-expectations-in-python-spaces/57950/7 https://discuss.python.org/t/inclusive-communications-expect... I've gone down the rabbit hole and what I dug up was honestly just scary. I very much resonated with Karl in that thread, the constant walking on eggshells in the dark, not knowing when someone you say in good faith might construed as "problematic behavior". Karl made a new thread saying he's leaving: https://discuss.python.org/t/im-leaving-too/58408 https://discuss.python.org/t/im-leaving-too/58408 And promptly got banned. This prompted Tim to open a thread about this: https://discuss.python.org/t/how-can-we-better-support-neurodivergent-newcomers-to-the-community/58724/4 https://discuss.python.org/t/how-can-we-better-support-neuro... I feel Tim tries to do his best for the community at every step. But he got booted with one of the reasons being: "- Dismissing unacceptable behavior of others as a “neurodivergent” trait, which is problematic because it creates a stereotype that neurodivergent people are hard to interact with and need special treatment." The matter of the fact is: Some of us do need special treatment. We're not kids, but you can't expect us to act like a perfect neurotypical person would. We are sometimes hard to interact with. Stop pretending neurotypical people and neurodivergent people are the same! We're not the same: We're not better, we're not worse, we're different. I'm sick and tired of people speaking on our behalf in the name of diversity. The hand that is reached out in the name of "neurodivergence accessibility" is often quickly pulled back when we don't fall in line with the guidelines centered on neurotypical sensibilities. We're free to be neurodivergent as long as we act neurotypical enough. Now, I don't really care much about the Python community by itself, but I feel this is a barometer for the wider state of the open source community. To me, it just makes me feel neurodivergent people are not welcome in these spaces.

zahlman 2y ago
>I very much resonated with Karl in that thread (That's me, by the way.) >Some of us do need special treatment. In some cases, not even "special treatment", but even just the sort of courtesy that they describe as being expected for everyone seems to be withheld.
- yuye 2y ago
  >(That's me, by the way.) Oh, didn't know that! They really did you dirty. I'm sorry. >In some cases, not even "special treatment", but even just the sort of courtesy that they describe as being expected for everyone seems to be withheld. My experience with a lot of communities is that this courtesy and expectation of argumentation out of good faith is only reserved to those that agree with the politics. I cannot see most of your posts in the "I'm leaving too" thread, as the benevolent moderators flagged that material as a cognitohazard. However, I think that by calling out hypocrisy, you have ruled any courtesy extended to you void. I also expect that your criticism of identity politics will be construed as "right-wing dogwhistling" by the powers that be. As with you, it's happened to me many times, too. I criticize something and I get attacked for "wrongthink". I'm even extremely careful to write this post as I don't want people to use this to paint me as some kind of alt-right ideologue in what I can only describe as a kind of reverse McCarthyism. My point being: Hang in there. You're not alone.
  - zahlman 2y ago
    >I cannot see most of your posts in the "I'm leaving too" thread, as the benevolent moderators flagged that material as a cognitohazard. Please see my archives here: https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/ https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/ >calling out hypocrisy, you have ruled any courtesy extended to you void It suits me fine. As I said, I was leaving anyway. It would be nice to get a retraction of their false claims, restoration of my removed content, and an apology. But it's just as well that I make sure others recognize the absurdity. >I also expect that your criticism of identity politics will be construed as "right-wing dogwhistling" by the powers that be. Not in as many words, but this clearly happened over a month ago already. >in what I can only describe as a kind of reverse McCarthyism. Just as I objected to the terms "reverse racism" and "reverse sexism": political persecution doesn't have a direction, and isn't a fundamentally different thing depending on who's doing it or the kind of idea is being rejected. (Of course I don't have any sympathy for ideas that explicitly propose harm to others; but even then, the correct course of action is refutation. Persecution is for those who act on ideas and cause harm.)
    - 2y ago

by yuye 2y ago

zahlman 2y ago

>I very much resonated with Karl in that thread (That's me, by the way.) >Some of us do need special treatment. In some cases, not even "special treatment", but even just the sort of courtesy that they describe as being expected for everyone seems to be withheld.

yuye 2y ago
>(That's me, by the way.) Oh, didn't know that! They really did you dirty. I'm sorry. >In some cases, not even "special treatment", but even just the sort of courtesy that they describe as being expected for everyone seems to be withheld. My experience with a lot of communities is that this courtesy and expectation of argumentation out of good faith is only reserved to those that agree with the politics. I cannot see most of your posts in the "I'm leaving too" thread, as the benevolent moderators flagged that material as a cognitohazard. However, I think that by calling out hypocrisy, you have ruled any courtesy extended to you void. I also expect that your criticism of identity politics will be construed as "right-wing dogwhistling" by the powers that be. As with you, it's happened to me many times, too. I criticize something and I get attacked for "wrongthink". I'm even extremely careful to write this post as I don't want people to use this to paint me as some kind of alt-right ideologue in what I can only describe as a kind of reverse McCarthyism. My point being: Hang in there. You're not alone.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >I cannot see most of your posts in the "I'm leaving too" thread, as the benevolent moderators flagged that material as a cognitohazard. Please see my archives here: https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/ https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/ >calling out hypocrisy, you have ruled any courtesy extended to you void It suits me fine. As I said, I was leaving anyway. It would be nice to get a retraction of their false claims, restoration of my removed content, and an apology. But it's just as well that I make sure others recognize the absurdity. >I also expect that your criticism of identity politics will be construed as "right-wing dogwhistling" by the powers that be. Not in as many words, but this clearly happened over a month ago already. >in what I can only describe as a kind of reverse McCarthyism. Just as I objected to the terms "reverse racism" and "reverse sexism": political persecution doesn't have a direction, and isn't a fundamentally different thing depending on who's doing it or the kind of idea is being rejected. (Of course I don't have any sympathy for ideas that explicitly propose harm to others; but even then, the correct course of action is refutation. Persecution is for those who act on ideas and cause harm.)
  - 2y ago