4 ms·

A few weeks ago I was visiting UK & France, and had several opportunities to experience both LNER and Eurostar trains. I have no illusions that the US is ready

A few weeks ago I was visiting UK & France, and had several opportunities to experience both LNER and Eurostar trains. I have no illusions that the US is ready for actual HSR, and we'd probably subject it to TSA security as bad or worse than what the Eurostar has now. But LNER ... now that is something I'd like to see here. Not HSR, but 125 mph is still half again as fast as most Amtrak trains. No security hassle, just hop on like you do with the tube. I'd even import the British rail class 800 trains that support both diesel as well as pure electric. Smooth and straighten existing 80mph lines so they're 125mph capable. Run electric in the metro areas and diesel in between. That's a dream. I know. But I do recall Amtrak saying something about making the existing tracks capable of >80mph between Portland and Seattle, and the Talgo trainsets they have now are rated for 120mph IIRC. So maybe we'll get something that doesn't suck.

vasco 2y ago
> we'd probably subject it to TSA security as bad or worse than what the Eurostar has now I take the Eurostar a few times a year for work between Amsterdam and Paris and there's literally no security whatsoever. If there's security to board the Eurostar in routes to/from the UK maybe it's because of Brexit?
- kylegordon 2y ago
  Between Amsterdam and Paris you are within the Schengen zone. UK to Europe will have border control, passports, etc.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Border control, sure, but we're talking about security. And GGP was talking about traveling around, and seemed to go on multiple trains, presumably several that were not crossing a controlled border. But re: UK<->mainland I guess it shouldn't be surprising that there's more security for the Chunnel crossing. That feels like it would be a much more likely terrorist target than a random HSR route on land.
    - iggldiggl 2y ago
      Paris <-> Brussels/Amsterdam/Cologne used to be branded as Thalys and Eurostar used to refer only to the London <-> Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam services. A few years back Thalys merged with Eurostar and then last year they started rebranding the former Thalys services as Eurostar, too, which probably explains the confusion. Only the former Eurostar services (nowadays "Eurostar Blue") have the security theatre on account of the Channel Tunnel plus UK being non-Schengen, whereas the former Thalys services ("Eurostar Red") are regular train services just like in the rest of Europe (except for Spain, which does some security theatre for its high speed trains, too, although AFAIK a bit less intense than Eurostar, which in turn is less intense than flying).
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  Can't edit my original comment, but I guess maybe I was wrong. I went through a long security line with x-ray and metal detector, but I was going between Paris and UK. It also had passport controls for leaving France and entering UK, all done at Gare du Nord (nice because at St Pancras we were able to just walk right out without any more hassle). I had read some reviews saying Eurostar security was airport like on all routes, but maybe I was just reading some other schmuck's experience on an international route like mine :-). Hopefully anyone reading my comment reads a little farther so they are better informed. And so, I amend my previous comment. I'd be satisfied with an LNER equivalent, but if I can get Eurostar speeds at LNER convenience, I definitely want that! I wonder how much the UK paid for the LNER lines, e.g. from King's Cross up to Waverley Station in Edinburgh. Not that it has any bearing on US costs, but I'm curious. Here everything is just stupidly expensive to build, and pretty much any stakeholder can derail the whole thing, even the tiny ones. I'm not a big fan of using eminent domain but there are times when it is the sensible choice.
  - iggldiggl 2y ago
    > I wonder how much the UK paid for the LNER lines, e.g. from King's Cross up to Waverley Station in Edinburgh. It's hard to come up with a definite single figure, because you'd have to go all the way back to the original railways in the 19th century and trace your way through all the upgrades that happened bit by bit since then, plus figure out how to handle inflation/purchasing power etc. across such a long time span.
kelnos 2y ago
> ... as bad or worse than what the Eurostar has now I was just on a Eurostar train from Antwerp to Paris last month (connecting from a local train from Boom), the week before the olympics, even, and security was nonexistent. Didn't even have to go through a metal detector, just walked through the fare gates and boarded. I guess maybe stations are inconsistent with their security level? What did you have to go through?
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  Same as a typical airport, everything into bins, send them through the x-ray machine, and walk through a metal detector. Leaving Paris, I had to go through French passport control (a person) and then through the UK passport control (a kiosk, same as Heathrow). The passport bit I get has everything to do with border control. I figured the x-ray scan and metal detector was universal. I've seen reviews that seemed to suggest that. I have no personal experience, though, with Eurostar staying within the Schengen Area.
- piva00 2y ago
  I believe security checks on Eurostar only happen when crossing the Channel Tunnel (leaving from St. Pancras or Gare du Nord).
  - iggldiggl 2y ago
    Until last year, only the London services were branded as Eurostar, whereas Paris <-> Brussels/Amsterdam/Cologne was known as Thalys. Thalys was acquired by Eurostar a few years back and evidently they wanted to unify their brands now, though.

vasco 2y ago

> we'd probably subject it to TSA security as bad or worse than what the Eurostar has now I take the Eurostar a few times a year for work between Amsterdam and Paris and there's literally no security whatsoever. If there's security to board the Eurostar in routes to/from the UK maybe it's because of Brexit?

kylegordon 2y ago
Between Amsterdam and Paris you are within the Schengen zone. UK to Europe will have border control, passports, etc.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Border control, sure, but we're talking about security. And GGP was talking about traveling around, and seemed to go on multiple trains, presumably several that were not crossing a controlled border. But re: UK<->mainland I guess it shouldn't be surprising that there's more security for the Chunnel crossing. That feels like it would be a much more likely terrorist target than a random HSR route on land.
  - iggldiggl 2y ago
    Paris <-> Brussels/Amsterdam/Cologne used to be branded as Thalys and Eurostar used to refer only to the London <-> Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam services. A few years back Thalys merged with Eurostar and then last year they started rebranding the former Thalys services as Eurostar, too, which probably explains the confusion. Only the former Eurostar services (nowadays "Eurostar Blue") have the security theatre on account of the Channel Tunnel plus UK being non-Schengen, whereas the former Thalys services ("Eurostar Red") are regular train services just like in the rest of Europe (except for Spain, which does some security theatre for its high speed trains, too, although AFAIK a bit less intense than Eurostar, which in turn is less intense than flying).
rootusrootus 2y ago
Can't edit my original comment, but I guess maybe I was wrong. I went through a long security line with x-ray and metal detector, but I was going between Paris and UK. It also had passport controls for leaving France and entering UK, all done at Gare du Nord (nice because at St Pancras we were able to just walk right out without any more hassle). I had read some reviews saying Eurostar security was airport like on all routes, but maybe I was just reading some other schmuck's experience on an international route like mine :-). Hopefully anyone reading my comment reads a little farther so they are better informed. And so, I amend my previous comment. I'd be satisfied with an LNER equivalent, but if I can get Eurostar speeds at LNER convenience, I definitely want that! I wonder how much the UK paid for the LNER lines, e.g. from King's Cross up to Waverley Station in Edinburgh. Not that it has any bearing on US costs, but I'm curious. Here everything is just stupidly expensive to build, and pretty much any stakeholder can derail the whole thing, even the tiny ones. I'm not a big fan of using eminent domain but there are times when it is the sensible choice.
- iggldiggl 2y ago
  > I wonder how much the UK paid for the LNER lines, e.g. from King's Cross up to Waverley Station in Edinburgh. It's hard to come up with a definite single figure, because you'd have to go all the way back to the original railways in the 19th century and trace your way through all the upgrades that happened bit by bit since then, plus figure out how to handle inflation/purchasing power etc. across such a long time span.

kelnos 2y ago

> ... as bad or worse than what the Eurostar has now I was just on a Eurostar train from Antwerp to Paris last month (connecting from a local train from Boom), the week before the olympics, even, and security was nonexistent. Didn't even have to go through a metal detector, just walked through the fare gates and boarded. I guess maybe stations are inconsistent with their security level? What did you have to go through?

rootusrootus 2y ago
Same as a typical airport, everything into bins, send them through the x-ray machine, and walk through a metal detector. Leaving Paris, I had to go through French passport control (a person) and then through the UK passport control (a kiosk, same as Heathrow). The passport bit I get has everything to do with border control. I figured the x-ray scan and metal detector was universal. I've seen reviews that seemed to suggest that. I have no personal experience, though, with Eurostar staying within the Schengen Area.
piva00 2y ago
I believe security checks on Eurostar only happen when crossing the Channel Tunnel (leaving from St. Pancras or Gare du Nord).
- iggldiggl 2y ago
  Until last year, only the London services were branded as Eurostar, whereas Paris <-> Brussels/Amsterdam/Cologne was known as Thalys. Thalys was acquired by Eurostar a few years back and evidently they wanted to unify their brands now, though.