13 ms·

Never Too Late To Learn An Instrument

23 points by tortilla 18y ago

undertoad 18y ago
"Hawkins says fear of failure is a big issue for his adult students: "We don't want to be seen as incompetent or struggling with a task, because we are so competent in so many areas of our life. We do so many things well, so to start with something we don't do well is a real challenge.""
projectileboy 18y ago
I started taking violin lessons with my (then) 5-year-old daughter. We've been going once a week for two years now (I'm 37), and it's a lot of fun, precisely because I had no previous experience with musical instruments, and so I had no expectations for myself. Additionally, it's a nice excuse to spend some time with your kid.
- cglee 18y ago
  That is very inspiring and yes, it does seem like a great way to connect with your kids and at the same time teaching them the value of hard work (when I was little, I remember thinking my parents just knew everything, with little thought to how hard they worked to gain that knowledge). On a separate note, are you any good? Are you better than your 5 year old?
  - projectileboy 18y ago
    Heh heh... well... I find we go back and forth, although I would imagine there would be some inflection point at which she'll start rapidly getting better than me.
- noahlt 18y ago
  It sounds like your daughter's being taught with the Suzuki Method, which is fine to get started with, but you will want to switch her to a better teacher soon. Suzuki will train her ears, which is important, but that's about all it's good for. It's designed so that kids reaquit shortly after they enter high school, and it leaves them mostly unable to sight-read. Background: I am a violinist, playing professionally at weddings and such about once a month (full-time student), and I started on Suzuki. btw, my father (who also had very little musical training) forced me to improvise (make up music as I went) for five minutes every day, even if it didn't sound good. Today I am quite good at musical improvisation, a skill that is no longer really taught in the classical school of music. I don't know if my dad's method would work for everyone, but I'd recommend it.
dilap 18y ago
The article seems to imply that adults will find learning an instrument extremely difficult and will likely never become really proficient -- but suggests they should just lower their expectations and go ahead and try anyway, because the experience will be enriching. Is that really "not too late"? As an adult trying to learn to play the piano, this is all rather depressing.
- gcheong 18y ago
  I don't know about the "extremely" difficult part but certainly it is more difficult and you need to be realistic in your expectations. I learned piano when I was a kid, rather I was forced to by my parents, never really enjoyed it and was mainly parroting than really learning. Now I am trying to learn electric guitar and I am much more interested in learning about music theory, reading music, and how to practice effectively, etc than I ever was as a kid. The first piece my instructor gave me was "Ode to Joy" and I thought I would never learn to play it, but I got through it and then another piece and at some point something "clicked" and my ability to play shot up dramatically - not anywhere near what even a mediocre guitarist can play but much beyond where I was even a short time ago, so I can directly relate to the experience of this article. You may not be aware of the progress you're are actually making because it doesn't always happen in a nice smooth curve. Keep plugging away, you'll get there .
  - dilap 18y ago
    Thanks for the encouragement :) I am indeed still plugging away, even if the process is not as easy or as fast as I would like. And it is fun nonetheless -- I am in love with the instrument: its size, the physical immediacy of the sound it produces, the charming ease with which you can play in C. It would be nice to think that I'll end up actually being good some day, though. We'll see. Have you gone back to the piano as you learn guitar? It's arguably the ideal instrument for theory...
    - gcheong 18y ago
      One reason I decided on the guitar is that my apt is too small for a piano - even the electric keyboard variety at this point. What little I did pick up as a kid has helped somewhat though in learning guitar. Someday I'd like to go back to it.
Angostura 18y ago
I watched GroundHog Day in my mid-30s and was inspired to learn the piano. Stop laughing at the back. The fact is that you don't have to be good to enjoy yourself. My Dad started learning in his mid 70s.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Why would anyone laugh at that? Groundhog Day is an awesome movie.
  - sown 18y ago
    Bill Murray's charachter is seen as a bit of a philosophical parable about self-improvement. See http://www.schindler.org/psacot/20010813_ghd.shtml http://www.schindler.org/psacot/20010813_ghd.shtml
    - tptacek 18y ago
      There's so much room for interpretation in this movie it's hard to know where to start. Consider, for instance, the fact that Murray's character apparently spends decades in this state.
  - gruseom 18y ago
    If you like Groundhog Day that much, you should check out the novel it was loosely inspired by, The Strange Life of Ivan Osokin by P.D. Ouspensky. Ouspensky isn't known as a novelist (he became a guru type) but up until the end where it gets a bit doctrinal, I thought it was a thoroughly delightful book. It's also a psychological tour de force, but I don't want to spoil the story by explaining why.
    - gruseom 18y ago
      Oops: apparently not inspired by but, let's say, resonant with. See the (rather pretentious) blurb by Harold Ramis on the back of the book: http://books.google.com/books?id=d15Nk9MmAMcC&pg=PT1&lpg=PT1&dq=groundhog+osokin&source=bl&ots=SwrHBGRZ2W&sig=VAqlVK2PVDUuhaNioz1TjJXJIQc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result http://books.google.com/books?id=d15Nk9MmAMcC&pg=PT1&#38...
biohacker42 18y ago
This together with The Economist article on music: http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=12795510 http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story... Is definitely tempting me to pick up a guitar again, that I have not played since I was 12. Anyone know if you can play quietly with an amp?
- icey 18y ago
  Build a pocket amp and use headphones (if you have a pair of headphones with a 1/4 inch jack you can just plug them directly into the guitar. It'll be really quiet without using any amplification though). Either that or get a Pignose and don't turn it up too loud. I think Marshall makes a baby sized amp as well.
- nostrademons 18y ago
  What I did in college was to run the guitar through a digital effects board and then into my cheapo computer speakers (which could be set to reasonable volume levels) or into headphones. Sound quality isn't as great, of course, but the digital stuff doesn't really care how loud you play and sounds about the same at all volume levels. You could get some pretty decent tones out of the higher-end effects boards, too. If you want sweet tube amp sound, you're basically out of luck. That's caused by the power tubes and speakers distorting (not the pre-amp tubes), so you've gotta crank them up to 11. There're also some products available that cut the power ratings on standard amplifiers. When I was into this stuff around 1998, your options were basically limited to YellowJackets (which let you substitute 18W EL84 tubes for EL34 amplifiers, like 50W and 100W Marshalls) and the PowerSink, which was an induction coil that would bleed off excess power as heat before it reached the speaker. Both of these would only cut the noise level from "will blow your eardrums out" to "will annoy the neighbors", and so weren't really suitable for apartments or dorms. Since then, I've heard that a bunch of manufacturers have wised up that there's a huge market in low-power tube amps, and it looks like you may be able to find 1-5W tube amps out there now.
  - Shooter 18y ago
    There are definitely many more low-power tube amps available now. There are some really neat ones in the 1.5 watt config. Even still, I think there is room in the market for more. If you already have a larger tube amp for gigs and are obsessive about the tube tone, I'd recommend searching for "power scaling" and "amp attenuator." You'd be very surprised with the sounds you can achieve at decent volumes. You can buy amps with power scaling built in or you can retrofit the circuit. Attenuators vary in quality, but they are easy to use external devices. I'm addicted to tube amps...and I used to like playing in my office in downtown Chicago to blow off steam. I often used a 30 watt amp with an Air Brake (attenuator) and I never got into any trouble because of the noise. I was able to use the same amp to play a gig in Grant Park on a Saturday and then to play in my 10 X 12' office on Monday.
ph0rque 18y ago
I learned the cello for one year when I was 7 (ah, free music schools in the USSR, one thing I do miss about that country...) I've had a renewed interest in learning it since one of my favorite bands is Apocalyptica. But for now, I don't have the time or money for private music lessons.
- akronim 18y ago
  just buy a second hand cello. You'll be surprised how much you remember, and while you may have lost the rapid learning ability you have at 7, you might find you now associate practising more with fun than homework :)
sh1mmer 18y ago
At 27 (not that old I know) I'm often on the road for work. I played sax for years as a kid but I haven't picked one up in at least 12 years. Recently I taught myself blues harp (harmonica) because it's something I can slip in my bag. With the help of web sites and gritting my teeth I'm getting pretty good. I'm now learning the accordion as well and plan to start on the trumpet some time in 2009. I love music and there is something wonderful about being able to make it your own again. I would really recommend picking and instrument up whatever you age. The harmonica was a great introduction for me because it's cheap, easy and my wife could put up with me playing it.
ryanmahoski 18y ago
I've always wanted to play the bassoon but it seemed too expensive an instrument to purchase so until last year I had not played a single note. That really bugged me until finally I accepted that I didn't need to buy one, I could just rent from the local music store. It's a puzzle of an instrument - your thumbs control ~12 keys - but half the fun was figuring some of those nuances out by trial and error.
tlb 18y ago
I've been learning guitar for the last few years, never having had much musical training as a kid. I fiddle around with it most evenings, just trying to play stuff I like, not taking it too seriously, and I've gotten good enough to enjoy it. I'll never be as good as [insert guitar hero here]. So what? Most nights, my place has the best free live music within miles.

23 points by tortilla 18y ago

"Hawkins says fear of failure is a big issue for his adult students: "We don't want to be seen as incompetent or struggling with a task, because we are so competent in so many areas of our life. We do so many things well, so to start with something we don't do well is a real challenge.""

projectileboy 18y ago

I started taking violin lessons with my (then) 5-year-old daughter. We've been going once a week for two years now (I'm 37), and it's a lot of fun, precisely because I had no previous experience with musical instruments, and so I had no expectations for myself. Additionally, it's a nice excuse to spend some time with your kid.

cglee 18y ago
That is very inspiring and yes, it does seem like a great way to connect with your kids and at the same time teaching them the value of hard work (when I was little, I remember thinking my parents just knew everything, with little thought to how hard they worked to gain that knowledge). On a separate note, are you any good? Are you better than your 5 year old?
- projectileboy 18y ago
  Heh heh... well... I find we go back and forth, although I would imagine there would be some inflection point at which she'll start rapidly getting better than me.
noahlt 18y ago
It sounds like your daughter's being taught with the Suzuki Method, which is fine to get started with, but you will want to switch her to a better teacher soon. Suzuki will train her ears, which is important, but that's about all it's good for. It's designed so that kids reaquit shortly after they enter high school, and it leaves them mostly unable to sight-read. Background: I am a violinist, playing professionally at weddings and such about once a month (full-time student), and I started on Suzuki. btw, my father (who also had very little musical training) forced me to improvise (make up music as I went) for five minutes every day, even if it didn't sound good. Today I am quite good at musical improvisation, a skill that is no longer really taught in the classical school of music. I don't know if my dad's method would work for everyone, but I'd recommend it.

dilap 18y ago

The article seems to imply that adults will find learning an instrument extremely difficult and will likely never become really proficient -- but suggests they should just lower their expectations and go ahead and try anyway, because the experience will be enriching. Is that really "not too late"? As an adult trying to learn to play the piano, this is all rather depressing.

gcheong 18y ago
I don't know about the "extremely" difficult part but certainly it is more difficult and you need to be realistic in your expectations. I learned piano when I was a kid, rather I was forced to by my parents, never really enjoyed it and was mainly parroting than really learning. Now I am trying to learn electric guitar and I am much more interested in learning about music theory, reading music, and how to practice effectively, etc than I ever was as a kid. The first piece my instructor gave me was "Ode to Joy" and I thought I would never learn to play it, but I got through it and then another piece and at some point something "clicked" and my ability to play shot up dramatically - not anywhere near what even a mediocre guitarist can play but much beyond where I was even a short time ago, so I can directly relate to the experience of this article. You may not be aware of the progress you're are actually making because it doesn't always happen in a nice smooth curve. Keep plugging away, you'll get there .
- dilap 18y ago
  Thanks for the encouragement :) I am indeed still plugging away, even if the process is not as easy or as fast as I would like. And it is fun nonetheless -- I am in love with the instrument: its size, the physical immediacy of the sound it produces, the charming ease with which you can play in C. It would be nice to think that I'll end up actually being good some day, though. We'll see. Have you gone back to the piano as you learn guitar? It's arguably the ideal instrument for theory...
  - gcheong 18y ago
    One reason I decided on the guitar is that my apt is too small for a piano - even the electric keyboard variety at this point. What little I did pick up as a kid has helped somewhat though in learning guitar. Someday I'd like to go back to it.

Angostura 18y ago

I watched GroundHog Day in my mid-30s and was inspired to learn the piano. Stop laughing at the back. The fact is that you don't have to be good to enjoy yourself. My Dad started learning in his mid 70s.

tptacek 18y ago
Why would anyone laugh at that? Groundhog Day is an awesome movie.
- sown 18y ago
  Bill Murray's charachter is seen as a bit of a philosophical parable about self-improvement. See http://www.schindler.org/psacot/20010813_ghd.shtml http://www.schindler.org/psacot/20010813_ghd.shtml
  - tptacek 18y ago
    There's so much room for interpretation in this movie it's hard to know where to start. Consider, for instance, the fact that Murray's character apparently spends decades in this state.
- gruseom 18y ago
  If you like Groundhog Day that much, you should check out the novel it was loosely inspired by, The Strange Life of Ivan Osokin by P.D. Ouspensky. Ouspensky isn't known as a novelist (he became a guru type) but up until the end where it gets a bit doctrinal, I thought it was a thoroughly delightful book. It's also a psychological tour de force, but I don't want to spoil the story by explaining why.
  - gruseom 18y ago
    Oops: apparently not inspired by but, let's say, resonant with. See the (rather pretentious) blurb by Harold Ramis on the back of the book: http://books.google.com/books?id=d15Nk9MmAMcC&pg=PT1&lpg=PT1&dq=groundhog+osokin&source=bl&ots=SwrHBGRZ2W&sig=VAqlVK2PVDUuhaNioz1TjJXJIQc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result http://books.google.com/books?id=d15Nk9MmAMcC&pg=PT1&#38...

biohacker42 18y ago

This together with The Economist article on music: http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=12795510 http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story... Is definitely tempting me to pick up a guitar again, that I have not played since I was 12. Anyone know if you can play quietly with an amp?

icey 18y ago
Build a pocket amp and use headphones (if you have a pair of headphones with a 1/4 inch jack you can just plug them directly into the guitar. It'll be really quiet without using any amplification though). Either that or get a Pignose and don't turn it up too loud. I think Marshall makes a baby sized amp as well.
nostrademons 18y ago
What I did in college was to run the guitar through a digital effects board and then into my cheapo computer speakers (which could be set to reasonable volume levels) or into headphones. Sound quality isn't as great, of course, but the digital stuff doesn't really care how loud you play and sounds about the same at all volume levels. You could get some pretty decent tones out of the higher-end effects boards, too. If you want sweet tube amp sound, you're basically out of luck. That's caused by the power tubes and speakers distorting (not the pre-amp tubes), so you've gotta crank them up to 11. There're also some products available that cut the power ratings on standard amplifiers. When I was into this stuff around 1998, your options were basically limited to YellowJackets (which let you substitute 18W EL84 tubes for EL34 amplifiers, like 50W and 100W Marshalls) and the PowerSink, which was an induction coil that would bleed off excess power as heat before it reached the speaker. Both of these would only cut the noise level from "will blow your eardrums out" to "will annoy the neighbors", and so weren't really suitable for apartments or dorms. Since then, I've heard that a bunch of manufacturers have wised up that there's a huge market in low-power tube amps, and it looks like you may be able to find 1-5W tube amps out there now.
- Shooter 18y ago
  There are definitely many more low-power tube amps available now. There are some really neat ones in the 1.5 watt config. Even still, I think there is room in the market for more. If you already have a larger tube amp for gigs and are obsessive about the tube tone, I'd recommend searching for "power scaling" and "amp attenuator." You'd be very surprised with the sounds you can achieve at decent volumes. You can buy amps with power scaling built in or you can retrofit the circuit. Attenuators vary in quality, but they are easy to use external devices. I'm addicted to tube amps...and I used to like playing in my office in downtown Chicago to blow off steam. I often used a 30 watt amp with an Air Brake (attenuator) and I never got into any trouble because of the noise. I was able to use the same amp to play a gig in Grant Park on a Saturday and then to play in my 10 X 12' office on Monday.

ph0rque 18y ago

I learned the cello for one year when I was 7 (ah, free music schools in the USSR, one thing I do miss about that country...) I've had a renewed interest in learning it since one of my favorite bands is Apocalyptica. But for now, I don't have the time or money for private music lessons.

akronim 18y ago
just buy a second hand cello. You'll be surprised how much you remember, and while you may have lost the rapid learning ability you have at 7, you might find you now associate practising more with fun than homework :)

sh1mmer 18y ago

At 27 (not that old I know) I'm often on the road for work. I played sax for years as a kid but I haven't picked one up in at least 12 years. Recently I taught myself blues harp (harmonica) because it's something I can slip in my bag. With the help of web sites and gritting my teeth I'm getting pretty good. I'm now learning the accordion as well and plan to start on the trumpet some time in 2009. I love music and there is something wonderful about being able to make it your own again. I would really recommend picking and instrument up whatever you age. The harmonica was a great introduction for me because it's cheap, easy and my wife could put up with me playing it.

ryanmahoski 18y ago

I've always wanted to play the bassoon but it seemed too expensive an instrument to purchase so until last year I had not played a single note. That really bugged me until finally I accepted that I didn't need to buy one, I could just rent from the local music store. It's a puzzle of an instrument - your thumbs control ~12 keys - but half the fun was figuring some of those nuances out by trial and error.

tlb 18y ago

I've been learning guitar for the last few years, never having had much musical training as a kid. I fiddle around with it most evenings, just trying to play stuff I like, not taking it too seriously, and I've gotten good enough to enjoy it. I'll never be as good as [insert guitar hero here]. So what? Most nights, my place has the best free live music within miles.