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You can read here about supreme court independence https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2024/08/19/how-independent-is-venezuelas-supreme-tribunal-of-justice/ http

by rbont 2y ago

You can read here about supreme court independence https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2024/08/19/how-independent-is-venezuelas-supreme-tribunal-of-justice/ https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2024/08/19/how-independent... and about the evidence that the numbers published by Maduro's opposition are correct https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2024/08/18/more-evidence-backs-the-election-results-published-by-the-venezuelan-opposition/ https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2024/08/18/more-evidence-b...

cma 2y ago
Caracas Chronicles: https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracas_Chronicles https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracas_Chronicles Says once self-described as "opposition-leaning-but-not-insane" fwiw. We in the US have big concerns with their elections and not Saudi elections for some reason. I don't think that it could be fully explained by hemisphere dominance.
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  What happens or happened in Saudi Arabia doesn't have any bearing on whether this Venezuelan election was won by the incumbent or the opposition based on the voting results (save for any direct intervention by Saudi Arabia which I'm not aware of).
  - cma 2y ago
    Why aren't we skeptical of Saudi elections, don't they not even have them for top positions?
    - jujube3 2y ago
      Saudi Arabia is a monarchy.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      What bearing does that have on whether this Venezuelan election was won by the incumbent or the opposition based on the voting results?
- rbont 2y ago
  Ok , but what do you think about the UN and Carter Center also publishing that the results published by the government are false ? What do you think about the fact that results by state, county or voting center have not been published after 3 weeks when for every past election they were published by next day ?
  - cma 2y ago
    I can easily believe the results published by the Venezuelan government are false. For the counting stuff I don't know, there have been misleading things with that in the past like in Bolivia where it was just due to the order the results were reported being biased towards one side so it seemed like a dramatic change suddenly happened but didn't really (like in the US 2020 election as well). Weeks seems more extreme and less likely to be something like that though.
  - culi 2y ago
    The Carter Center never claimed the results were fake. That would be a massive claim. They criticized "short deadlines, relatively few places of registration, and minimal public information", barriers to citizens abroad voting (which skew very heavily anti-Maduro), and "unequal conditions among candidates" (Maduro was much better funded than the opposition). It sums up with: > In the limited number of polling centers they visited, Carter Center observer teams noted the desire of the Venezuelan people to participate in a democratic election process, as demonstrated through their active participation as polling staff, party witnesses, and citizen observers. However, their efforts were undermined by the CNE's complete lack of transparency in announcing the results. I would also check out the UN's July 28 report on the matter: https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/files/Interim_Report_PoE_Venezuela_090824.pdf https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/file...
    - rbont 2y ago
      UN Human rights council from today We warn about the lack of independence and impartiality of supreme court and national electoral council https://x.com/UN_HRC/status/1826624015097888919 https://x.com/UN_HRC/status/1826624015097888919 the judge deciding if the election was good is a member of the ruling party and ran for local offices under PSUV ALSO The Carter Center: "The records confirm that Edmundo Gonzalez obtained 70% of the votes https://confidencial.digital/english/the-carter-center-the-records-confirm-that-edmundo-gonzalez-obtained-70-of-the-votes/ https://confidencial.digital/english/the-carter-center-the-r... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soaQUkfUVvc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soaQUkfUVvc Min 3:30 you can hear them saying it (in Spanish)

by rbont 2y ago

cma 2y ago

Caracas Chronicles: https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracas_Chronicles https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracas_Chronicles Says once self-described as "opposition-leaning-but-not-insane" fwiw. We in the US have big concerns with their elections and not Saudi elections for some reason. I don't think that it could be fully explained by hemisphere dominance.

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
What happens or happened in Saudi Arabia doesn't have any bearing on whether this Venezuelan election was won by the incumbent or the opposition based on the voting results (save for any direct intervention by Saudi Arabia which I'm not aware of).
- cma 2y ago
  Why aren't we skeptical of Saudi elections, don't they not even have them for top positions?
  - jujube3 2y ago
    Saudi Arabia is a monarchy.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    What bearing does that have on whether this Venezuelan election was won by the incumbent or the opposition based on the voting results?
rbont 2y ago
Ok , but what do you think about the UN and Carter Center also publishing that the results published by the government are false ? What do you think about the fact that results by state, county or voting center have not been published after 3 weeks when for every past election they were published by next day ?
- cma 2y ago
  I can easily believe the results published by the Venezuelan government are false. For the counting stuff I don't know, there have been misleading things with that in the past like in Bolivia where it was just due to the order the results were reported being biased towards one side so it seemed like a dramatic change suddenly happened but didn't really (like in the US 2020 election as well). Weeks seems more extreme and less likely to be something like that though.
- culi 2y ago
  The Carter Center never claimed the results were fake. That would be a massive claim. They criticized "short deadlines, relatively few places of registration, and minimal public information", barriers to citizens abroad voting (which skew very heavily anti-Maduro), and "unequal conditions among candidates" (Maduro was much better funded than the opposition). It sums up with: > In the limited number of polling centers they visited, Carter Center observer teams noted the desire of the Venezuelan people to participate in a democratic election process, as demonstrated through their active participation as polling staff, party witnesses, and citizen observers. However, their efforts were undermined by the CNE's complete lack of transparency in announcing the results. I would also check out the UN's July 28 report on the matter: https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/files/Interim_Report_PoE_Venezuela_090824.pdf https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/file...
  - rbont 2y ago
    UN Human rights council from today We warn about the lack of independence and impartiality of supreme court and national electoral council https://x.com/UN_HRC/status/1826624015097888919 https://x.com/UN_HRC/status/1826624015097888919 the judge deciding if the election was good is a member of the ruling party and ran for local offices under PSUV ALSO The Carter Center: "The records confirm that Edmundo Gonzalez obtained 70% of the votes https://confidencial.digital/english/the-carter-center-the-records-confirm-that-edmundo-gonzalez-obtained-70-of-the-votes/ https://confidencial.digital/english/the-carter-center-the-r... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soaQUkfUVvc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soaQUkfUVvc Min 3:30 you can hear them saying it (in Spanish)