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I read all sort of contradictory "scientific facts" about this subject. By the end of the day, listening and observing your body will provide you the right answ

I read all sort of contradictory "scientific facts" about this subject. By the end of the day, listening and observing your body will provide you the right answer.

anotherhue 2y ago
Sure...but an interesting recent-ish development is that you're not only listening to your body, but to a enormous microbiome that is also signalling you towards its own ends (it's sugar, they always want sugar). Here's a paper that talks about the pathway: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4367209/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4367209/
- rajnathani 2y ago
  Not really about the sugar point. At times people crave savory or something high starch+fat based. For instance, little kids generally tend to crave for very sweet things but at times prefer something like pizza or pasta over something sweet (this is based on a personal second-hand observations). This is also the case for humans, for example during cheat days that people don't simply eat sweets (for example Dwayne Johnson finishing up something like 12 pizzas as one of the things on his cheat days).
lm28469 2y ago
Everyone is different that's for sure. I haven't eaten breakfast since I'm a teen and I mostly eat one meal a day for the last 10+ years Everybody talks shit about fasting but nobody even bat an eye at "you have to eat three times a day, every day, at the same time, everything else is obviously wrong", which is at least as ridiculous
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  Around here, the five mealtimes are morning-meal, 9 o'clock snack, midday-meal, 4 o'clock snack, and evening-meal. On the other hand, I've been in a resort where they announced "merienda will be served between X and Y o'clock", which scandalised my local friends, who wondered aloud who'd ever heard of such sacrilege as eating merienda according to a clock and not your stomach. My impression of historical practice is that people who had to go work in groups, in fields (or later in factories), tended to hew to traditional mealtimes. (there's a nice discussion somewhere on HN about how you don't want to stay in the fields between noon and one, or the "noonday witch" will get you...) However, those who could afford it simply ate whenever they felt like (in at least two asian countries I know, it's considered a faux pas if there is ever a moment during the day when the main table doesn't have some sort of food on it). The story I heard is that in the western context it was Louis XIV* who instituted mealtimes for rich as well as poor: his court was so large and so elaborate that logistics demanded the kitchen no longer be open, as it had been under previous monarchs, for courtiers to swing by at any hour they felt like grabbing some grub. True, or "Just So"? * later, in the waning days of Austria-Hungary, the protocol at court dinners was that one did not continue eating dessert after the Emperor had finished with his. Of course, he had also been served first, so at some precedence level it must've always been a throw of the dice, whether one would even get served any Kaiserschmarrn before it was time to down forks.
RandomCitizen12 2y ago
Given that fasting is enshrined as a order in many belief systems, it seems like humans needs external motivation to ignore their body's complaints and fast for positive effects.
- lm28469 2y ago
  75% of adult in the west are obese or overweight because they listen to their body... What we call fasting today was the defacto lifestyle for hundred millions of years. The current three meals a day pattern doesn't even register on that scale
anonyfox 2y ago
thats not always the right thing to do. drugs can mess with what you feel/want for example. we meatbags do have really bad sensors at times.
AndrewKemendo 2y ago
Is there a name for the phenomena encountered with this particular response? Specifically, I’m talking about when discussing extremely complex systems, ones that we don’t have full understanding of, there’s this tendency at a certain point of complexity to throw your hands up and say: “because we can’t understand all of it perfectly then we can’t understand any of it and so just rely on these exceptionally loose grained impossible to define heuristics that have no comparability reference or baseline or anything meaningfully objective” It’s like completely abandoning the concept of science measurement and just going full in with nothing matters we can’t measure it so do whatever you want. Is it a failure of communication or is this an actual cognitive pattern that we can define? It seems like a basic implementation of the all or nothing fallacy
- roenxi 2y ago
  I present to you the Wikipedia List of Cognitive Biases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Egocentric_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Egoce... . There is a lot of overlap on a topic like this, but probably something like the "Illusion of validity". That being said, listening to your own body is not a bad strategy. The nervous system evolved in tandem with this particular extremely complex system and is arguably purpose-built to keep it in good working order.
  - marliechiller 2y ago
    | listening to your own body is not a bad strategy. Is it this strictly true? Are people that are overweight not just "listening to their body" when they overeat? I feel its not as simple as that. If we always listened to our bodies we would never exercise beyond the first instance of becoming tired for example.
    - salawat 2y ago
      The existence of things like psychiatric meds imply that the answer to "listen to your own body" is not universally yes.
- 2y ago
namaria 2y ago
The response to 'science is confusing' should never be 'ignore science'
- taeric 2y ago
  Fair, though I think a charitable read of the advice would be not to wait for a complete consensus in science before living your life.
  - namaria 2y ago
    I don't think anyone has ever said you should put your life on hold until nutrition science is settled?
    - taeric 2y ago
      Fair. My experience with people that read all sorts of contradictory studies, as the OP mentioned, are more on hold than makes sense.
      - namaria 2y ago
        I guess people can take these headlines about nutrition research a bit too serious. Doesn't help that there's so much vested interested involved in what people chose to eat. I do think trying to make sense of it is a great exercise in critical thinking. And I enjoy one thing about this: nutrition is about complexity. Trying to nail down a perfect diet or 'super food' is akin to looking for a silver bullet in software development. Also a great opportunity to think about unintended consequences and consumerism. Think about the impact of quinoa fads on Peruvian farmer communities. If anything, nutrition science is a masterclass in complexity. That's probably why these cliche 'oh nutrition science is so full of contradictions' rub me the wrong way.
        taeric 2y ago
        Agreed. Using a metaphor of hiking a mountain generally works for me. Most steps you can make from any given spot are generally not that impactful. And sometimes you do have to make a lot of neutral steps in order to get on a path that will take you farther. Sometimes, you even have to backtrack. And all choices are highly dependent on where you, specifically, are.
llm_trw 2y ago
Yeah, which is why you should always eat leaded paint. How can something so sweet be bad for you?

I read all sort of contradictory "scientific facts" about this subject. By the end of the day, listening and observing your body will provide you the right answer.

anotherhue 2y ago

Sure...but an interesting recent-ish development is that you're not only listening to your body, but to a enormous microbiome that is also signalling you towards its own ends (it's sugar, they always want sugar). Here's a paper that talks about the pathway: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4367209/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4367209/

rajnathani 2y ago
Not really about the sugar point. At times people crave savory or something high starch+fat based. For instance, little kids generally tend to crave for very sweet things but at times prefer something like pizza or pasta over something sweet (this is based on a personal second-hand observations). This is also the case for humans, for example during cheat days that people don't simply eat sweets (for example Dwayne Johnson finishing up something like 12 pizzas as one of the things on his cheat days).

lm28469 2y ago

Everyone is different that's for sure. I haven't eaten breakfast since I'm a teen and I mostly eat one meal a day for the last 10+ years Everybody talks shit about fasting but nobody even bat an eye at "you have to eat three times a day, every day, at the same time, everything else is obviously wrong", which is at least as ridiculous

082349872349872 2y ago
Around here, the five mealtimes are morning-meal, 9 o'clock snack, midday-meal, 4 o'clock snack, and evening-meal. On the other hand, I've been in a resort where they announced "merienda will be served between X and Y o'clock", which scandalised my local friends, who wondered aloud who'd ever heard of such sacrilege as eating merienda according to a clock and not your stomach. My impression of historical practice is that people who had to go work in groups, in fields (or later in factories), tended to hew to traditional mealtimes. (there's a nice discussion somewhere on HN about how you don't want to stay in the fields between noon and one, or the "noonday witch" will get you...) However, those who could afford it simply ate whenever they felt like (in at least two asian countries I know, it's considered a faux pas if there is ever a moment during the day when the main table doesn't have some sort of food on it). The story I heard is that in the western context it was Louis XIV* who instituted mealtimes for rich as well as poor: his court was so large and so elaborate that logistics demanded the kitchen no longer be open, as it had been under previous monarchs, for courtiers to swing by at any hour they felt like grabbing some grub. True, or "Just So"? * later, in the waning days of Austria-Hungary, the protocol at court dinners was that one did not continue eating dessert after the Emperor had finished with his. Of course, he had also been served first, so at some precedence level it must've always been a throw of the dice, whether one would even get served any Kaiserschmarrn before it was time to down forks.

RandomCitizen12 2y ago

Given that fasting is enshrined as a order in many belief systems, it seems like humans needs external motivation to ignore their body's complaints and fast for positive effects.

lm28469 2y ago
75% of adult in the west are obese or overweight because they listen to their body... What we call fasting today was the defacto lifestyle for hundred millions of years. The current three meals a day pattern doesn't even register on that scale

anonyfox 2y ago

thats not always the right thing to do. drugs can mess with what you feel/want for example. we meatbags do have really bad sensors at times.

AndrewKemendo 2y ago

Is there a name for the phenomena encountered with this particular response? Specifically, I’m talking about when discussing extremely complex systems, ones that we don’t have full understanding of, there’s this tendency at a certain point of complexity to throw your hands up and say: “because we can’t understand all of it perfectly then we can’t understand any of it and so just rely on these exceptionally loose grained impossible to define heuristics that have no comparability reference or baseline or anything meaningfully objective” It’s like completely abandoning the concept of science measurement and just going full in with nothing matters we can’t measure it so do whatever you want. Is it a failure of communication or is this an actual cognitive pattern that we can define? It seems like a basic implementation of the all or nothing fallacy

roenxi 2y ago
I present to you the Wikipedia List of Cognitive Biases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Egocentric_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Egoce... . There is a lot of overlap on a topic like this, but probably something like the "Illusion of validity". That being said, listening to your own body is not a bad strategy. The nervous system evolved in tandem with this particular extremely complex system and is arguably purpose-built to keep it in good working order.
- marliechiller 2y ago
  | listening to your own body is not a bad strategy. Is it this strictly true? Are people that are overweight not just "listening to their body" when they overeat? I feel its not as simple as that. If we always listened to our bodies we would never exercise beyond the first instance of becoming tired for example.
  - salawat 2y ago
    The existence of things like psychiatric meds imply that the answer to "listen to your own body" is not universally yes.
2y ago

namaria 2y ago

The response to 'science is confusing' should never be 'ignore science'

taeric 2y ago
Fair, though I think a charitable read of the advice would be not to wait for a complete consensus in science before living your life.
- namaria 2y ago
  I don't think anyone has ever said you should put your life on hold until nutrition science is settled?
  - taeric 2y ago
    Fair. My experience with people that read all sorts of contradictory studies, as the OP mentioned, are more on hold than makes sense.
    - namaria 2y ago
      I guess people can take these headlines about nutrition research a bit too serious. Doesn't help that there's so much vested interested involved in what people chose to eat. I do think trying to make sense of it is a great exercise in critical thinking. And I enjoy one thing about this: nutrition is about complexity. Trying to nail down a perfect diet or 'super food' is akin to looking for a silver bullet in software development. Also a great opportunity to think about unintended consequences and consumerism. Think about the impact of quinoa fads on Peruvian farmer communities. If anything, nutrition science is a masterclass in complexity. That's probably why these cliche 'oh nutrition science is so full of contradictions' rub me the wrong way.
      - taeric 2y ago
        Agreed. Using a metaphor of hiking a mountain generally works for me. Most steps you can make from any given spot are generally not that impactful. And sometimes you do have to make a lot of neutral steps in order to get on a path that will take you farther. Sometimes, you even have to backtrack. And all choices are highly dependent on where you, specifically, are.

llm_trw 2y ago

Yeah, which is why you should always eat leaded paint. How can something so sweet be bad for you?