4 ms·

I think the global north doesn’t really line up with human instinct in a lot of ways. Climate, day length pattern, vegetation. I guess somewhere in Africa shou

I think the global north doesn’t really line up with human instinct in a lot of ways. Climate, day length pattern, vegetation. I guess somewhere in Africa should per perfect? I doubt the humans who split off and went north have had their instincts change enough to not prefer that sort of climate, and that explains the draw to sun rich areas. Not to mention those who left that region much more recently. It’s interesting that I haven’t seen any groups with a Darwinian Zionism, so to speak. An ancestral claim to the region where humans evolved.

apercu 2y ago
I don't know, I love the northern flora, too, Rattlesnake master, moline, dogwood, black-eyed susan, blazing star, echinacea (purple coneflower) and so many more. More importantly, humans need water.
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  I think emotional attachment does form to what is familiar within our lifetimes. But what is a more typical "dream" desire by the average human? To retire in a northern forest, or to retire on a tropical island? Where do people typically vacation, when the surroundings and how they feel are the primary focus? Do the very wealthy, who can do whatever they like, usually spend more time in the woods or in the tropics? Did Ellison and Zuckerberg buy large swaths of temperate forest? Etc.
  - apercu 2y ago
    Maybe. I grew up in the Southwest. Ellison and Zuckerberg have very different values than I have. Getting out of the Southwest and coming to the Midwest (school) and staying for a while before spending 18 years in Canada was a joy. I found the people to be less religious, less racist, surprisingly in to locally sourced food and nature conservation. I'm certainly not poor, but most wealthy people I know are, well, not really someone I would want to spend a lot of time with or emulate.
    - pfannkuchen 2y ago
      I am only using very wealthy people as a reference because I think they are a good proxy for hedonistic values, which I believe are rooted in human instinct and what worked in the ancestral environment. You can’t delete these instincts, you can only bury them.
      - apercu 2y ago
        I'm not arguing, but again, nuance. I don't know that it is human instinct, my understanding is that diseases like malaria and the heat (no A/C) meant European colonizers avoided a lot of the warmer places and moved inland to the mountains where it was cooler. It might, instead, be a cultural influence? I feel like I am being pedantic, though. Apologies for that.
mannykannot 2y ago
It seems unlikely that climate-zone preferences motivated the prehistoric spread of humanity, as that would require both a knowledge of the possibilities and the means to exploit them. More likely, people settled where they could support themselves and moved when that no longer was the case, either from micro-climactic changes or population pressure. Large-scale migration into the arid parts of North America and elsewhere was first facilitated by the development of the technology to use deep aquifers.
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  Other way around. Humans and pre-human hominids evolved in a more confined region of the world for an extremely long time, and they left recently enough that they still instinctively prefer the climate of that region. Prehistoric spread was driven by other factors that were more important than climate preference. But that doesn't eliminate climate preference, and all else equal humans will act on that preference.
  - mannykannot 2y ago
    Oh, I see, I think: you are saying that we have preserved a preference for our ancestral habitat, and that has motivated recent migration into arid areas? Maybe so; we still have some physiological adaptions for warm climates. When it comes to agriculture in the desert, which is still the major reason why the snowpack shortfall is a matter of concern, the motivation seems more economic: crops grow very well in sunny climates, so long as you can give them adequate water - and we could, for a while, but probably not sustainably.
    - galangalalgol 2y ago
      Modern humans came frome the Ethiopian plateau right? So low of 75F high of 80F sort of thing. High altitude equatorial. Bogotá is similar but cooler. As is Quitó. Much of coastal Europe and west coast North America is a decent approximate.
      - 2y ago
BobaFloutist 2y ago
I mean the Mediterranean climate is traditionally the most baseline hospitable to human life, but it's also usually pretty susceptible to drought.
lenerdenator 2y ago
For better or for worse, the global north's where most of the land and resources are, along with the majority of human civilization. Also, as far as climate, day length pattern, vegetation, etc., I don't think moving back to, say, the Midwest (particularly the lower part) would be screwing most people. Alaska? Sure. Kansas City? Day lengths are pretty normal there.

apercu 2y ago

I don't know, I love the northern flora, too, Rattlesnake master, moline, dogwood, black-eyed susan, blazing star, echinacea (purple coneflower) and so many more. More importantly, humans need water.

pfannkuchen 2y ago
I think emotional attachment does form to what is familiar within our lifetimes. But what is a more typical "dream" desire by the average human? To retire in a northern forest, or to retire on a tropical island? Where do people typically vacation, when the surroundings and how they feel are the primary focus? Do the very wealthy, who can do whatever they like, usually spend more time in the woods or in the tropics? Did Ellison and Zuckerberg buy large swaths of temperate forest? Etc.
- apercu 2y ago
  Maybe. I grew up in the Southwest. Ellison and Zuckerberg have very different values than I have. Getting out of the Southwest and coming to the Midwest (school) and staying for a while before spending 18 years in Canada was a joy. I found the people to be less religious, less racist, surprisingly in to locally sourced food and nature conservation. I'm certainly not poor, but most wealthy people I know are, well, not really someone I would want to spend a lot of time with or emulate.
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    I am only using very wealthy people as a reference because I think they are a good proxy for hedonistic values, which I believe are rooted in human instinct and what worked in the ancestral environment. You can’t delete these instincts, you can only bury them.
    - apercu 2y ago
      I'm not arguing, but again, nuance. I don't know that it is human instinct, my understanding is that diseases like malaria and the heat (no A/C) meant European colonizers avoided a lot of the warmer places and moved inland to the mountains where it was cooler. It might, instead, be a cultural influence? I feel like I am being pedantic, though. Apologies for that.

mannykannot 2y ago

It seems unlikely that climate-zone preferences motivated the prehistoric spread of humanity, as that would require both a knowledge of the possibilities and the means to exploit them. More likely, people settled where they could support themselves and moved when that no longer was the case, either from micro-climactic changes or population pressure. Large-scale migration into the arid parts of North America and elsewhere was first facilitated by the development of the technology to use deep aquifers.

pfannkuchen 2y ago
Other way around. Humans and pre-human hominids evolved in a more confined region of the world for an extremely long time, and they left recently enough that they still instinctively prefer the climate of that region. Prehistoric spread was driven by other factors that were more important than climate preference. But that doesn't eliminate climate preference, and all else equal humans will act on that preference.
- mannykannot 2y ago
  Oh, I see, I think: you are saying that we have preserved a preference for our ancestral habitat, and that has motivated recent migration into arid areas? Maybe so; we still have some physiological adaptions for warm climates. When it comes to agriculture in the desert, which is still the major reason why the snowpack shortfall is a matter of concern, the motivation seems more economic: crops grow very well in sunny climates, so long as you can give them adequate water - and we could, for a while, but probably not sustainably.
  - galangalalgol 2y ago
    Modern humans came frome the Ethiopian plateau right? So low of 75F high of 80F sort of thing. High altitude equatorial. Bogotá is similar but cooler. As is Quitó. Much of coastal Europe and west coast North America is a decent approximate.
    - 2y ago

BobaFloutist 2y ago

I mean the Mediterranean climate is traditionally the most baseline hospitable to human life, but it's also usually pretty susceptible to drought.

lenerdenator 2y ago

For better or for worse, the global north's where most of the land and resources are, along with the majority of human civilization. Also, as far as climate, day length pattern, vegetation, etc., I don't think moving back to, say, the Midwest (particularly the lower part) would be screwing most people. Alaska? Sure. Kansas City? Day lengths are pretty normal there.