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I think the desire to insult comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for one's own reactions. If I'm upset, I want it to be your fault. I want you t

by smeej 2y ago

I think the desire to insult comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for one's own reactions. If I'm upset, I want it to be your fault. I want you to be in the wrong. I don't want to admit that I'm responsible for my reactions even when you are doing something wrong. It's much harder work to master myself than to complain that you haven't mastered yours. I know someone who has resorted to, "This displeases me," as his condemnation of choice to combat this tendency, to keep right in front of himself the reality of the situation, that he doesn't like something, but his displeasure is his responsibility. I think that recognition has to happen to make space for a response to the situation, rather than a reaction to it. Does my displeasure motivate me to take action? If so, what kind? Are other people pleased by the situation? Can I see it their way? Is their response measured, or reactionary? It buys time, and inserting a beat between the event and the response makes all the difference.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> the desire to insult comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for one's own reactions. If I'm upset, I want it to be your fault If someone does something blazingly stupid, I should be able to calmly and legitimately point that out.
- groby_b 2y ago
  It is worth keeping in mind that "insult" is fairly opposite to "calmly and legitimately pointing something out". You can highlight why an idea was bad without insulting.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > can highlight why an idea was bad without insulting Sometimes you want to speak not to the idea but the person. “XYZ has an unbroken track record of coming up with flagrantly stupid ideas and then acting on them with zero thought to their obviously-foreseeable consequences” is a mouthful beginning to cross, itself, into euphemistic territory.
    - groby_b 2y ago
      Even then, it's possible to talk about the person not possessing the necessary skill set, instead of resorting to an insult. It's not about euphemism - an insult definitely feels better in the moment, but it does nothing to actually identify the problem. Note, I'm not saying you should never insult - it's a tool that's sometimes useful - but you should carefully choose if you want to use that tool. And it's definitely a different tool than "calmly and legitimately pointing out". You cannot, in this case, have your cake and eat it too.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > an insult definitely feels better in the moment, but it does nothing to actually identify the problem If you're insulting to feel good, that's on you. But if you're insulting to be sure your point came across clearly, that has utility. I'm simply challenging the claim that the "desire to insult comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for one's own reactions." It can also be from a desire to avoid miscommunication. Strong language is strong because it demands strong interpretation. If what you need is a strong interpretation, strong language is legitimate. > an insult definitely feels better in the moment, but it does nothing to actually identify the problem Most of the time, the process is fucked. But sometimes, a person is unqualified. Or a liar. In those cases, the person is the problem. The fact that it displeases someone is secondary, and honestly, totally irrelevant. Trying to re-frame that in a form that pretends the person isn't the problem is the point of euphemism. It's more polite to say "ABC is having difficulty with their workload" than "ABC is a moron; these are not difficult asks."
        smeej 2y ago
        You can also say, "ABC is terrible at this." That's not an insult. It's an observation. "ABC is a moron" is an insult. The insult defines the person by a failure, instead of limiting the criticism to the relevant task. If you're stooping to defining a person by their inability to do some specific thing, I still hold that you need to take responsibility for your own reaction.
- smeej 2y ago
  Sure, but you don't do that by slinging an insult. You (as you said) calmly and legitimately point it out. Just saying, for common example, "That was blazingly stupid," isn't calmly and legitimately pointing it out. Calmly and legitimately pointing it out would be to connect the cause with the effect and highlight that the person didn't want the effect, like, "That's what happens when you touch a hot stove." The obviousness of the connection causes the person to see their own error rather sharply.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > obviousness of the connection causes the person to see their own error rather sharply If this is the goal insults are the wrong tool. If getting the person out of the way is the goal, insults can be effective.

by smeej 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> the desire to insult comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for one's own reactions. If I'm upset, I want it to be your fault If someone does something blazingly stupid, I should be able to calmly and legitimately point that out.

groby_b 2y ago
It is worth keeping in mind that "insult" is fairly opposite to "calmly and legitimately pointing something out". You can highlight why an idea was bad without insulting.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > can highlight why an idea was bad without insulting Sometimes you want to speak not to the idea but the person. “XYZ has an unbroken track record of coming up with flagrantly stupid ideas and then acting on them with zero thought to their obviously-foreseeable consequences” is a mouthful beginning to cross, itself, into euphemistic territory.
  - groby_b 2y ago
    Even then, it's possible to talk about the person not possessing the necessary skill set, instead of resorting to an insult. It's not about euphemism - an insult definitely feels better in the moment, but it does nothing to actually identify the problem. Note, I'm not saying you should never insult - it's a tool that's sometimes useful - but you should carefully choose if you want to use that tool. And it's definitely a different tool than "calmly and legitimately pointing out". You cannot, in this case, have your cake and eat it too.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > an insult definitely feels better in the moment, but it does nothing to actually identify the problem If you're insulting to feel good, that's on you. But if you're insulting to be sure your point came across clearly, that has utility. I'm simply challenging the claim that the "desire to insult comes from the unwillingness to take responsibility for one's own reactions." It can also be from a desire to avoid miscommunication. Strong language is strong because it demands strong interpretation. If what you need is a strong interpretation, strong language is legitimate. > an insult definitely feels better in the moment, but it does nothing to actually identify the problem Most of the time, the process is fucked. But sometimes, a person is unqualified. Or a liar. In those cases, the person is the problem. The fact that it displeases someone is secondary, and honestly, totally irrelevant. Trying to re-frame that in a form that pretends the person isn't the problem is the point of euphemism. It's more polite to say "ABC is having difficulty with their workload" than "ABC is a moron; these are not difficult asks."
      - smeej 2y ago
        You can also say, "ABC is terrible at this." That's not an insult. It's an observation. "ABC is a moron" is an insult. The insult defines the person by a failure, instead of limiting the criticism to the relevant task. If you're stooping to defining a person by their inability to do some specific thing, I still hold that you need to take responsibility for your own reaction.
smeej 2y ago
Sure, but you don't do that by slinging an insult. You (as you said) calmly and legitimately point it out. Just saying, for common example, "That was blazingly stupid," isn't calmly and legitimately pointing it out. Calmly and legitimately pointing it out would be to connect the cause with the effect and highlight that the person didn't want the effect, like, "That's what happens when you touch a hot stove." The obviousness of the connection causes the person to see their own error rather sharply.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > obviousness of the connection causes the person to see their own error rather sharply If this is the goal insults are the wrong tool. If getting the person out of the way is the goal, insults can be effective.