3 ms·

Pray tell, why can't you do this discussion async in writing?

jstimpfle 2y ago
Not engaging enough. I write a couple lines, expect a couple lines some 1 to 180 minutes later that might miss half the point, etc. Totally different dynamic. Having to cache in the previous state of the discussion whenever I receive a reply is exhausting. So some things are just not brought up. And whenever it's actually an interactive synchronous live-chat, why not just hop on a call then?
- nottorp 2y ago
  Cache? It’s a text chat, it has history?
  - jstimpfle 2y ago
    Are you implying that 1) everything from the chat is immediately present in the brain when taking up the discussion at a later point, as well as 2) Last time you left the chat, all the the relevant context was well encoded as chat text in the first place?
    - nottorp 2y ago
      I thought writing things down, even in a chat, helps a lot with both points? All this time I've been writing wrong...
      - jstimpfle 2y ago
        It's certainly better to have chat text than to not have it, but whether it can make up for the huge cost of asynchronicity is another question (each delay breaks your flow, requiring you to cache-out, cache-in...)
quectophoton 2y ago
If you do text, you only help once. The problem is solved for everyone else, and you leave a trace for people searching for similar problems. On the other hand, in secret 1:1 calls with no trace, that only help one and only one person, you can appear busy and productive while also helping people in secret, and doing so multiple times for the same or similar problem. You reap the rewards multiple times. And since people never put any initial effort at all (they just say "hi do you have a minute?" instead of describing their issue), if multiple people have the same problem right now, then you have plausible deniability for your multiple calls because you didn't know that they had the same issue, so that's why all calls were separate instead of solving them all at once. Don't even mention the fact that others can explain their initial problem with screenshots, or with a Slack recording (literally 2 clicks, and then doing exactly the same as they would do during the first minute of the call anyway), to get quick context and then either solve the problem instantly or jump to a call. Nono, while those things get points for not being searchable, they still leave some useful information in the history (mainly some context and the moment in time when you had that conversation), and we can't risk having that. Also, if they send the video, Slack might even include a searchable transcription (I don't know if that's a feature yet though), and if that wasn't bad enough, if you end up not knowing the answer, the video can even be shared with others on a shared channel to save time finding the person who knows how to fix the problem. Hopefully you understand now the problems with async text communication.
- jstimpfle 2y ago
  You're being cynical and it seems you take a quite extremist stance. My impression is you're blind to the value of ephemeral, low-ceremony discussion. Just bounce an idea of someone else and see what comes back. Sharing fews, helping each other learn, etc. Not everything needs to be recorded, in fact I'm very happy that most discussions aren't. Spare me the crap. I've seen many company wikis full of stuff that nobody ever looks up, because it's mostly irrelevant, outdated, or plain wrong content. The value of discussions mostly isn't in the things that can be recorded or searched later, but in the effort the participants put into it. As stated before, this is up to a certain threshold. One or a few low-friction discussions per day can be very fine. It shouldn't take up the biggest part of your day's focus time.
nunez 2y ago
Sometimes it is easier and much faster to express what you're asking over a zoom.

Not engaging enough. I write a couple lines, expect a couple lines some 1 to 180 minutes later that might miss half the point, etc. Totally different dynamic. Having to cache in the previous state of the discussion whenever I receive a reply is exhausting. So some things are just not brought up. And whenever it's actually an interactive synchronous live-chat, why not just hop on a call then?

nottorp 2y ago
Cache? It’s a text chat, it has history?
- jstimpfle 2y ago
  Are you implying that 1) everything from the chat is immediately present in the brain when taking up the discussion at a later point, as well as 2) Last time you left the chat, all the the relevant context was well encoded as chat text in the first place?
  - nottorp 2y ago
    I thought writing things down, even in a chat, helps a lot with both points? All this time I've been writing wrong...
    - jstimpfle 2y ago
      It's certainly better to have chat text than to not have it, but whether it can make up for the huge cost of asynchronicity is another question (each delay breaks your flow, requiring you to cache-out, cache-in...)

quectophoton 2y ago

If you do text, you only help once. The problem is solved for everyone else, and you leave a trace for people searching for similar problems. On the other hand, in secret 1:1 calls with no trace, that only help one and only one person, you can appear busy and productive while also helping people in secret, and doing so multiple times for the same or similar problem. You reap the rewards multiple times. And since people never put any initial effort at all (they just say "hi do you have a minute?" instead of describing their issue), if multiple people have the same problem right now, then you have plausible deniability for your multiple calls because you didn't know that they had the same issue, so that's why all calls were separate instead of solving them all at once. Don't even mention the fact that others can explain their initial problem with screenshots, or with a Slack recording (literally 2 clicks, and then doing exactly the same as they would do during the first minute of the call anyway), to get quick context and then either solve the problem instantly or jump to a call. Nono, while those things get points for not being searchable, they still leave some useful information in the history (mainly some context and the moment in time when you had that conversation), and we can't risk having that. Also, if they send the video, Slack might even include a searchable transcription (I don't know if that's a feature yet though), and if that wasn't bad enough, if you end up not knowing the answer, the video can even be shared with others on a shared channel to save time finding the person who knows how to fix the problem. Hopefully you understand now the problems with async text communication.

jstimpfle 2y ago
You're being cynical and it seems you take a quite extremist stance. My impression is you're blind to the value of ephemeral, low-ceremony discussion. Just bounce an idea of someone else and see what comes back. Sharing fews, helping each other learn, etc. Not everything needs to be recorded, in fact I'm very happy that most discussions aren't. Spare me the crap. I've seen many company wikis full of stuff that nobody ever looks up, because it's mostly irrelevant, outdated, or plain wrong content. The value of discussions mostly isn't in the things that can be recorded or searched later, but in the effort the participants put into it. As stated before, this is up to a certain threshold. One or a few low-friction discussions per day can be very fine. It shouldn't take up the biggest part of your day's focus time.

nunez 2y ago

Sometimes it is easier and much faster to express what you're asking over a zoom.