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How can you say that the infrastructure costs are secondary? How do you think that the video content is going to be stored and served if not through paid infra

How can you say that the infrastructure costs are secondary? How do you think that the video content is going to be stored and served if not through paid infrastructure?

cynicalsecurity 2y ago
Through torrents, for example.
- LunaSea 2y ago
  The YouTube size estimates represent between 10 and 15 exabytes, that's not a possible volume for Torrents. And that is simply touching the easiest problem to solve which is the storage part. Serving the video fast with adaptive quality and having the available bandwidth close to the user is another much larger problem.
  - Intralexical 2y ago
    > The YouTube size estimates represent between 10 and 15 exabytes, that's not a possible volume for Torrents. Since filming, editing, and streaming videos already consumes users' storage and bandwidth resources anyway, the total amount of resources available to a P2P torrent-style network clearly is already in the ballpark of what's needed for YouTube. > Serving the video fast with adaptive quality and having the available bandwidth close to the user is another much larger problem. No idea how well it works in practice, but in theory PeerTube has already solved this using WebTorrent. The nice thing about P2P is that your network's capacity scales organically with load. More users⇒More capacity.
    - LunaSea 2y ago
      > Since filming, editing, and streaming videos already consumes users' storage and bandwidth resources anyway, the total amount of resources available to a P2P torrent-style network clearly is already in the ballpark of what's needed for YouTube. I doubt it because a lot of this content doesn't exist outside of Youtube and because the content does exist on external drives has not internet connectivity or capacity to get it. > No idea how well it works in practice, but in theory PeerTube has already solved this using WebTorrent. It seems to currently have 220K users, not exactly what I would call representative or a success for that matter. > The nice thing about P2P is that your network's capacity scales organically with load. More users⇒More capacity. Only if they agree to themselves share the content they host which is not necessarily the case.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Seems like you think the whole collection has to be in one single torrent, rather than a separate torrent for each video, and that the complete works of all channels have to be seeded from a single source? The Pirate Bay existed… huh, still exists, OK… without requiring any single person to have all the pirated content on any single system — the combined size of all videos on YouTube may be 10 to 15 exabytes or whatever, but no single video, no single creator, is close to that. Even LTT is about 3.6 petabytes for their entire working-archive backup system last I heard, and if they wanted to stream those as a torrent, well, the files are right there. It may not suit the current way YouTube content is consumed, where you share a link to a specific timestamp and whoever follows that link can see that moment almost immediately, but that doesn't detract from "can people share videos, perhaps even ones they made themselves, using this system?"
nulbyte 2y ago
> How do you think that the video content is going to be stored and served if not through paid infrastructure? Secondary doesn't mean nonexistent, it comes after the primary thing, content creation. When the Internet was younger, people willingly paid for privilege of sharing content. Creation was the primary motivation; costs were a secondary concern. I think it resulted in more and better communities than today, where people pull out all the stops to rake in the dough as the primary means of earning money.
- LunaSea 2y ago
  > When the Internet was younger, people willingly paid for privilege of sharing content. Creation was the primary motivation; costs were a secondary concern. I think it resulted in more and better communities than today, where people pull out all the stops to rake in the dough as the primary means of earning money. Yes and on this young Internet your site had 100 views, mostly from people close by. The content shared was mostly text and a small amount of images. Video and audio were largely non-existant. > I think it resulted in more and better communities than today, where people pull out all the stops to rake in the dough as the primary means of earning money. You're describing hobby content creators which didn't have the volume and quality of individual content creators nowadays.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > which didn't have the volume agreed > and quality filming with an 8k camera doesn't mean quality though, it just means more production/hosting costs...
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      Agree. Production quality != overall quality. I'd much rather have great content badly produced than professionally produced crap.
      - LunaSea 2y ago
        Most people still seem to watch Hollywood quality movies so I don't know if your taste is very representative.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
I pay my telecom for 500mbit up and down, what other infrastructure must be paid for to support torrenting?
- Zetaphor 2y ago
  Each individual seeder is paying for electricity, storage, and internet access to make those torrents available to you.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    Right, and I'm one of them!

How can you say that the infrastructure costs are secondary? How do you think that the video content is going to be stored and served if not through paid infrastructure?

cynicalsecurity 2y ago

Through torrents, for example.

LunaSea 2y ago
The YouTube size estimates represent between 10 and 15 exabytes, that's not a possible volume for Torrents. And that is simply touching the easiest problem to solve which is the storage part. Serving the video fast with adaptive quality and having the available bandwidth close to the user is another much larger problem.
- Intralexical 2y ago
  > The YouTube size estimates represent between 10 and 15 exabytes, that's not a possible volume for Torrents. Since filming, editing, and streaming videos already consumes users' storage and bandwidth resources anyway, the total amount of resources available to a P2P torrent-style network clearly is already in the ballpark of what's needed for YouTube. > Serving the video fast with adaptive quality and having the available bandwidth close to the user is another much larger problem. No idea how well it works in practice, but in theory PeerTube has already solved this using WebTorrent. The nice thing about P2P is that your network's capacity scales organically with load. More users⇒More capacity.
  - LunaSea 2y ago
    > Since filming, editing, and streaming videos already consumes users' storage and bandwidth resources anyway, the total amount of resources available to a P2P torrent-style network clearly is already in the ballpark of what's needed for YouTube. I doubt it because a lot of this content doesn't exist outside of Youtube and because the content does exist on external drives has not internet connectivity or capacity to get it. > No idea how well it works in practice, but in theory PeerTube has already solved this using WebTorrent. It seems to currently have 220K users, not exactly what I would call representative or a success for that matter. > The nice thing about P2P is that your network's capacity scales organically with load. More users⇒More capacity. Only if they agree to themselves share the content they host which is not necessarily the case.
- ben_w 2y ago
  Seems like you think the whole collection has to be in one single torrent, rather than a separate torrent for each video, and that the complete works of all channels have to be seeded from a single source? The Pirate Bay existed… huh, still exists, OK… without requiring any single person to have all the pirated content on any single system — the combined size of all videos on YouTube may be 10 to 15 exabytes or whatever, but no single video, no single creator, is close to that. Even LTT is about 3.6 petabytes for their entire working-archive backup system last I heard, and if they wanted to stream those as a torrent, well, the files are right there. It may not suit the current way YouTube content is consumed, where you share a link to a specific timestamp and whoever follows that link can see that moment almost immediately, but that doesn't detract from "can people share videos, perhaps even ones they made themselves, using this system?"

nulbyte 2y ago

> How do you think that the video content is going to be stored and served if not through paid infrastructure? Secondary doesn't mean nonexistent, it comes after the primary thing, content creation. When the Internet was younger, people willingly paid for privilege of sharing content. Creation was the primary motivation; costs were a secondary concern. I think it resulted in more and better communities than today, where people pull out all the stops to rake in the dough as the primary means of earning money.

LunaSea 2y ago
> When the Internet was younger, people willingly paid for privilege of sharing content. Creation was the primary motivation; costs were a secondary concern. I think it resulted in more and better communities than today, where people pull out all the stops to rake in the dough as the primary means of earning money. Yes and on this young Internet your site had 100 views, mostly from people close by. The content shared was mostly text and a small amount of images. Video and audio were largely non-existant. > I think it resulted in more and better communities than today, where people pull out all the stops to rake in the dough as the primary means of earning money. You're describing hobby content creators which didn't have the volume and quality of individual content creators nowadays.
- nottorp 2y ago
  > which didn't have the volume agreed > and quality filming with an 8k camera doesn't mean quality though, it just means more production/hosting costs...
  - cassianoleal 2y ago
    Agree. Production quality != overall quality. I'd much rather have great content badly produced than professionally produced crap.
    - LunaSea 2y ago
      Most people still seem to watch Hollywood quality movies so I don't know if your taste is very representative.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

I pay my telecom for 500mbit up and down, what other infrastructure must be paid for to support torrenting?

Zetaphor 2y ago
Each individual seeder is paying for electricity, storage, and internet access to make those torrents available to you.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  Right, and I'm one of them!