6 ms·

This sort of thing is exactly why I have automatic updates disabled on my Windows partition. I've been burned so many times by bad Windows updates breaking stuf

This sort of thing is exactly why I have automatic updates disabled on my Windows partition. I've been burned so many times by bad Windows updates breaking stuff. My favourite is when stuff breaks during the "configuring updates" stage after a reboot, leaving Windows in a boot loop with no error codes or anything to help you figure it out. And of course the documentation from MS is utter garbage. Most of the time the only solution I found was to reinstall Windows. Now I always google around a bit before applying any fresh Windows updates to see of there's any breakage reported.

detourdog 2y ago
The last time I had to manages windows I used Unattended to wipe and re-install to a base level. I found that diagnosing and troubleshooting was not worth the effort. https://tgup.net/ https://tgup.net/
- gcr 2y ago
  How does tgup compare to ninite? The latter seems more polished and older/stable, with more software available. https://ninite.com/ https://ninite.com/
  - 1oooqooq 2y ago
    if you're at a point you need either of them, just hire someone too work on the oem scripts. for personal use, not really worth it imo if you're installing the right version of windows (Enterprise ltsc) it's already one click install. and your applications will change every week anyway.
  - detourdog 2y ago
    no idea. This was the early 2000s. I'm sure it's based on the same thing. I set-up a netbsd box as the server and could hook up as many laptop as I had network ports. I would then just hit the enter key or perform a few manually steps when things couldn't be automated. I'm sure it's all based on silent install or the /s switch for install.bat. If my memory is working.
BaculumMeumEst 2y ago
My Windows install is stuck in a boot loop like this - it spends 10 minutes trying to update and then fails, except maybe 1/3 times it then boots normally. I don't even try to do anything about it, I just marvel at it.
- qludes 2y ago
  I have a Thinkpad that did something like this, it would try to install updates, fail and eventually boot into some kind of recovery wizard that demanded the bitlocker key. That wizard wasn't able to actually fix anything either but after failing a few times the system finally would uninstall the update. The whole process took over an hour with zero feedback. I had to switch to Linux just to get a machine I could rely on.
- cooljacob204 2y ago
  Last time I saw a computer do that it was due to bad memory sticks.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 2y ago
  Yeah, it turns out applying updates during boot is bad design. I'm sure plenty of people at MS realise it is, but I guess they don't care enough to fix it.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    Windows can’t replace running executables, so needs to reboot. Fundamental design not easily changed.
- pohuing 2y ago
  Do you dual boot? That's what mine did when the efi partition was too small for grub and windows' bootloader
  - BaculumMeumEst 2y ago
    Yeah, I dual boot. I think my efi partition is around 100mb. I forget if Arch puts just one backup kernel in there, but I feel like I saw a lot of garbage in there once that I had to clear out. Maybe that's the problem, will investigate, thanks.
moffkalast 2y ago
[flagged]
- ParetoOptimal 2y ago
  > The result is a rock solid reliable experience that even an LTS linux can't match. NixOS because of its generations has been extremely stable for me for years. Have an issue? Reboot, select yesterdays generation (similar to but better than restore point), and keep working.
- 9dev 2y ago
  This is really bad advice—don't follow it. Zero day vulnerabilities are a thing, and you intentionally prevent yourself from getting those fixed quickly. Running critical software without updating may have been possible in some distant past, but it isn't any longer: You will catch an exploit or crypto locker at some point. Microsoft abusing its update mechanism to pushing crap is nothing new, but downright refusing updates ins't the answer either.
  - moffkalast 2y ago
    When a windows update destroys your install, is it really any different from actual malware? I consider it one and protect myself accordingly. At least you can be careful about the rest with adblocking, sandboxing and being irrelevant enough to not make your machine a target for anyone competent, which gives you a pretty great chance at avoiding them. If you keep built-in malware (and in recent versions, also spyware) running, then getting screwed by it is a certainty. Personally, I'll take my chances and I think the average HN user would not have any problems doing this, but I wouldn't really recommend this approach to someone that's not tech savvy. I'd give them a Chromebook instead.
    - 9dev 2y ago
      > At least you can be careful about the rest with adblocking, sandboxing and being irrelevant enough to not make your machine a target for anyone competent, which gives you a pretty great chance at avoiding them. That maybe used to be a thing, but isn't anymore really: There only needs to be a single, unpatched vulnerability in your network stack, the multitude of devices around you, whether at home, work, or in a cafe, none of which you control, might exploit. And one more little piece of trivia; high levels of expertise usually come with increased negligence on the basics, because you're less careful. This affects pilots and nerds alike; just think of Ross Ulbricht. Good luck :)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

detourdog 2y ago

The last time I had to manages windows I used Unattended to wipe and re-install to a base level. I found that diagnosing and troubleshooting was not worth the effort. https://tgup.net/ https://tgup.net/

gcr 2y ago
How does tgup compare to ninite? The latter seems more polished and older/stable, with more software available. https://ninite.com/ https://ninite.com/
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  if you're at a point you need either of them, just hire someone too work on the oem scripts. for personal use, not really worth it imo if you're installing the right version of windows (Enterprise ltsc) it's already one click install. and your applications will change every week anyway.
- detourdog 2y ago
  no idea. This was the early 2000s. I'm sure it's based on the same thing. I set-up a netbsd box as the server and could hook up as many laptop as I had network ports. I would then just hit the enter key or perform a few manually steps when things couldn't be automated. I'm sure it's all based on silent install or the /s switch for install.bat. If my memory is working.

BaculumMeumEst 2y ago

My Windows install is stuck in a boot loop like this - it spends 10 minutes trying to update and then fails, except maybe 1/3 times it then boots normally. I don't even try to do anything about it, I just marvel at it.

qludes 2y ago
I have a Thinkpad that did something like this, it would try to install updates, fail and eventually boot into some kind of recovery wizard that demanded the bitlocker key. That wizard wasn't able to actually fix anything either but after failing a few times the system finally would uninstall the update. The whole process took over an hour with zero feedback. I had to switch to Linux just to get a machine I could rely on.
cooljacob204 2y ago
Last time I saw a computer do that it was due to bad memory sticks.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 2y ago
Yeah, it turns out applying updates during boot is bad design. I'm sure plenty of people at MS realise it is, but I guess they don't care enough to fix it.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  Windows can’t replace running executables, so needs to reboot. Fundamental design not easily changed.
pohuing 2y ago
Do you dual boot? That's what mine did when the efi partition was too small for grub and windows' bootloader
- BaculumMeumEst 2y ago
  Yeah, I dual boot. I think my efi partition is around 100mb. I forget if Arch puts just one backup kernel in there, but I feel like I saw a lot of garbage in there once that I had to clear out. Maybe that's the problem, will investigate, thanks.

moffkalast 2y ago

[flagged]

ParetoOptimal 2y ago
> The result is a rock solid reliable experience that even an LTS linux can't match. NixOS because of its generations has been extremely stable for me for years. Have an issue? Reboot, select yesterdays generation (similar to but better than restore point), and keep working.
9dev 2y ago
This is really bad advice—don't follow it. Zero day vulnerabilities are a thing, and you intentionally prevent yourself from getting those fixed quickly. Running critical software without updating may have been possible in some distant past, but it isn't any longer: You will catch an exploit or crypto locker at some point. Microsoft abusing its update mechanism to pushing crap is nothing new, but downright refusing updates ins't the answer either.
- moffkalast 2y ago
  When a windows update destroys your install, is it really any different from actual malware? I consider it one and protect myself accordingly. At least you can be careful about the rest with adblocking, sandboxing and being irrelevant enough to not make your machine a target for anyone competent, which gives you a pretty great chance at avoiding them. If you keep built-in malware (and in recent versions, also spyware) running, then getting screwed by it is a certainty. Personally, I'll take my chances and I think the average HN user would not have any problems doing this, but I wouldn't really recommend this approach to someone that's not tech savvy. I'd give them a Chromebook instead.
  - 9dev 2y ago
    > At least you can be careful about the rest with adblocking, sandboxing and being irrelevant enough to not make your machine a target for anyone competent, which gives you a pretty great chance at avoiding them. That maybe used to be a thing, but isn't anymore really: There only needs to be a single, unpatched vulnerability in your network stack, the multitude of devices around you, whether at home, work, or in a cafe, none of which you control, might exploit. And one more little piece of trivia; high levels of expertise usually come with increased negligence on the basics, because you're less careful. This affects pilots and nerds alike; just think of Ross Ulbricht. Good luck :)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]