4 ms·

Yep! You are right that it's hard. But also, when a group says, "please stop calling us X", it's not just in group signaling. I'm disabled. Do not call me diff

• mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  I've never once met a group. I've only met people who are members of groups, and they are rarely unanimous about the words that should be used to refer to members of the groups to which they claim membership. If I can manage not to forget your username, hungie, then I will try to remember not to call you "differently abled". But please be patient and forgiving of my confusion if, between now and our next conversation, I encounter a third individual who insists that I never refer to them as "disabled" and instead call them "differently abled", and my memory for which of you preferred which term fails me. Forgive me doubly if you're both in the audience at the same time when I'm giving a presentation about installing a wheelchair ramp, and struggling to come up with a mutually-satisfactory term. I already struggle enough with names alone, such that I often decline to use them out of anxiety of making a mistake!
  • hungie 2y ago
    You've got my forgiveness in that situation! That would be a tough one! I don't think most groups are unanimous in self describing, but I do think there are general trends. We know, generally, that certain words aren't ok! Plenty of slurs we avoid, even ones used by in groups in a reclaimed way. I don't think most reasonable people expect perfection. I spend a lot of time in disabled and queer (and disabled queer) circles, and I've primarily observed people expressing preferences, not anger.
    • mitthrowaway2 2y ago
      This is true, but don't forget that (especially for socially-anxious individuals), anger does not have to be expressed to be perceived! And that when the burden of expressing oneself becomes too high, people may prefer not to express themselves at all. Everyone has their own internal threshold for this, some are set surprisingly low, and often the people who decide to stay quiet have the views we most need to hear. Some people will cheerfully adapt their language and continue without missing a beat; others will feel deeply ashamed and embarrassed, and simply shut down out of the fear of making a mistake again. There are all sorts of people, and the burden of language weighs differently on each.
      • hungie 2y ago
        Yep. Like I said, I hang out in a lot of disabled spaces. Many of those disabilities are invisible (social anxiety is super common). There's not a great one size fits all solution, so I push for grace and I push for understanding. Two people might have mutually impossible to reconcile experiences with language. I believe if we assume good intent from others and attempt good intent towards others, we'll clear many, many situations with a minimum of harm to all.
        • mitthrowaway2 2y ago
          Me too. This is why, as I said earlier, I don't correct people when they use outdated euphemisms, unless it's clear that they're deliberately using them as put-downs. (And in that case it's more the attitude rather than the language that is the problem). (Anyway, cheers! You seem like the kind of person I'd enjoy hanging out with in person, even if we disagree on things. Sorry if I seem like I'm just posting rebuttals; text is a hard medium).
          • hungie 2y ago
            I try to be not an asshole, but firm in my beliefs. While also recognizing they are my beliefs not grand universal truths. I don't always succeed, but at least I felt likewise: you disagreed, but didn't resort to obvious flame bait or straw person arguments. Appreciate it!
  • concordDance 2y ago
    > I've only met people who are members of groups, and they are rarely unanimous about the words that should be used to refer to members of the groups to which they claim membership. The problem of "determine what group X wants" gets even worse when we go online and the people whose words we read are now not randomly sampled from the group, instead being the tony minority who care enough to campaign about it online (or those who arent even group members but campaign for them).
• HKH2 2y ago
  > Language always evolves. If you can learn what "yeet" means, you can practice using words people prefer for their groups. We're talking about using words. I have never used that word.
  • hungie 2y ago
    Understanding is not using, but fair, not everyone understands yeet. Replace it with any sufficiently recent neologism. Rizz, zhuzh, doggo, sus, cromulent, phishing, nerf, npc, gram/grammable, etc etc. The point isn't about yeet, specifically.
    • HKH2 2y ago
      NPC, sus and phish are at least 20 years old and serve a clear purpose. The rest I've never used.
      • hungie 2y ago
        Do you understand them? I've never ever used "rizz", but I understand it means "charisma" or charm, for instance.
        • HKH2 2y ago
          I know what 'nerf' and 'grammable' mean because they're obvious, but I won't ever think of using them. The rest I honestly have no idea about. I really don't care about fashionable language.
          • burnished 2y ago
            Your disinterest is ostentatious to the point of itself being a fashion statement. Also, 'nerf' and 'grammable' are obvious? I know what nerf means but neither are in any way obvious. I think you've got some unexamined ideas about language that have more to do with the words you learned as you were coming up than any principled or aesthetic reason.