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If I may make some assumptions about you: 1. You're a person of a particular frame of mind who finds it easy and natural to talk to computers in programming la

If I may make some assumptions about you: 1. You're a person of a particular frame of mind who finds it easy and natural to talk to computers in programming languages 2. You knew a different language before, perhaps one you learnt at a young age 3. You've messed around with computers for years now and have built up a conceptual model of what the hardware and software components are and how things fit together. So if a new thing comes along, you can hang it on your tree of knowledge. Consider the difficulty someone might have making hello_world.py if they don't know what an OS is, or how to edit text, or any of the basics. None of the above generalizes to the population at large.

fragmede 2y ago
not "at large", but there's very much a segment of smart people who's expertise lies elsewhere, and they just haven't taken the time to learn the basics of programming. as someone who's spent a lot of time programming, I love meeting brilliant people who could program but don't just because they've gone a different way.
- dylan604 2y ago
  Some people forget how easy programming can be when you know nothing and just try stuff to see what works. Working in a procedural manner with everything in a global scope is simple to get stuff working. Not everything has to be extrapolated out into namespaces, functions, classes. It's nightmare code to maintain later, but going from blank page to working code is totally possible. I think sometimes we forget not everything has to be written to a git repo with a highly developed structure ready for multiple people to work on. Is it a good habit, hellznaw, but people start somewhere and progress. That was the point that I was trying to make. It is totally possible to have a career as a programmer and have no credentialed degrees in CS or even programming. I know from personal experience.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    I agree with you. In the 2000s, what you describe was normal for Excel/VBA. The trick to learn VBA from nothing, was to use the macro recorder, then slowly modify the code. And, arguably, Excel formulas was/is functional programming.
    - skydhash 2y ago
      I learned C by using gcc directly and Python by using IDLE. Both with single file project. The actual software engineering can take time, but simple projects are very easy for beginner to reason about. Everyone can build a shed, it’s building a house that requires professional expertise.

fragmede 2y ago

not "at large", but there's very much a segment of smart people who's expertise lies elsewhere, and they just haven't taken the time to learn the basics of programming. as someone who's spent a lot of time programming, I love meeting brilliant people who could program but don't just because they've gone a different way.

dylan604 2y ago
Some people forget how easy programming can be when you know nothing and just try stuff to see what works. Working in a procedural manner with everything in a global scope is simple to get stuff working. Not everything has to be extrapolated out into namespaces, functions, classes. It's nightmare code to maintain later, but going from blank page to working code is totally possible. I think sometimes we forget not everything has to be written to a git repo with a highly developed structure ready for multiple people to work on. Is it a good habit, hellznaw, but people start somewhere and progress. That was the point that I was trying to make. It is totally possible to have a career as a programmer and have no credentialed degrees in CS or even programming. I know from personal experience.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  I agree with you. In the 2000s, what you describe was normal for Excel/VBA. The trick to learn VBA from nothing, was to use the macro recorder, then slowly modify the code. And, arguably, Excel formulas was/is functional programming.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    I learned C by using gcc directly and Python by using IDLE. Both with single file project. The actual software engineering can take time, but simple projects are very easy for beginner to reason about. Everyone can build a shed, it’s building a house that requires professional expertise.