4 ms·

What is the evidence that Microplastics are harmful?

notarealllama 2y ago
From TFA The extent to which microplastics cause harm or toxicity is unclear, although recent studies associated MNP presence in carotid atheromas with increased inflammation and risk of future adverse cardiovascular events2,3. In controlled exposure studies, MNPs clearly enhance or drive toxic outcomes4–6. The mantra of the field of toxicology – “dose makes the poison” (Paracelsus) – renders such discoveries as easily anticipated; what is not clearly understood is the internal dose in humans.
- hammock 2y ago
  So… we don’t know. Please take back your profanity and your downvote. An association means little considering Microplastics are more commonly found in garbage ultraprocessed food. And the second part of your quote is saying we can make anything toxic in a controlled exposure if we dose it high enough
MVissers 2y ago
Doc here. It’s hard to prove. You can’t do a double-blind randomized control trial. And we have barely learned to measure these nanoplastics. But there are starting to be strong correlations between the plastic occurrence and terrible diseases. Recent data on atherosclerosis + infarcts is horrible. Recent data on testes production of sperm cells also looks very damning. In summary, there are a few unexplained things in medicine that might very well be caused by plastics. Eg. More colon cancer in young people in the west. Eg. Declining sperm quality in the last 30 years in the west. Yes, it could be foods, but it doesn’t explain the whole picture. Plastics could be it. My guess is that a LOT of nasty studies will come out in the next years. I switched to glass and metal for all my food and water, for as much as I can control it.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  Another thing you can do to limit your exposure is to move far away from high-traffic roads. Tire dust is a major factor in exposure.
- PontifexMinimus 2y ago
  > You can’t do a double-blind randomized control trial. You could on animals.
  - tasty_freeze 2y ago
    Yes, and I guarantee the first comment on that future HN article will be: "In mice" and dismiss the study.
- yosito 2y ago
  Aren't microplastics a much bigger problem in Asia than in the West? I would guess that the negative effects of microplastics would show up in Asia first, rather than the West.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    Depends. They are currently higher in Asia, but I would guess they were higher in the west before the last few decades.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  We also don’t have a definitive cause of the obesity epidemic. It wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out to be caused by plastics exposure.
cynicalpeace 2y ago
This is why the term ”common sense” is a good term
- evilos 2y ago
  "Common sense" is basically the opposite of science.
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    I like science, but that doesn't mean it has to be the end-all-be-all. Otherwise it would be a religion. There are situations where overthinking it is bad. Yes, obviously, microplastics in your brain are bad for you. Common sense. Any delay because "the science isn't there yet" does more harm than good.
dudisubekti 2y ago
There’s a review on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9885170/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9885170/ > Endocrine toxicity induced by MPs is an emerging issue, despite the subject being rarely documented, there is growing evidence for ingested MPs bioaccumulation in mammalian tissues and organs with deleterious outcomes including endocrine abnormalities, reproductive toxicity, gut microbiota dysbiosis, and defective immunological responses in rodents, rats and mice. And: > However, there are still no conclusive research reports that have determined the direct consequences of MPs and NPs on the hypothalamus, pituitary, and adrenal gland. However, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” These microplastics are definitely on the more suspicious side, just like tobacco use was.
- hindsightbias 2y ago
  In an alternate universe the onus of safety would reside with those introducing copious quantities of something into human environments. Unfortunately we do not live in that universe.
  - dudisubekti 2y ago
    Yeah, safety takes decades to study conclusively, it’s simply antithetical to fast-paced industrial world. Sometimes I read accounts on industrial revolution England and think “how the heck people survive THAT.” Several decades from now there will be people who think of us the same way haha.
  - mr_toad 2y ago
    If we took that approach with everything nobody would be using cellphones.
    - guerrilla 2y ago
      Nobody would be using cellphones now you mean. They would be evetually. The benefits of patience outweigh the costs.
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago

From TFA The extent to which microplastics cause harm or toxicity is unclear, although recent studies associated MNP presence in carotid atheromas with increased inflammation and risk of future adverse cardiovascular events2,3. In controlled exposure studies, MNPs clearly enhance or drive toxic outcomes4–6. The mantra of the field of toxicology – “dose makes the poison” (Paracelsus) – renders such discoveries as easily anticipated; what is not clearly understood is the internal dose in humans.

hammock 2y ago
So… we don’t know. Please take back your profanity and your downvote. An association means little considering Microplastics are more commonly found in garbage ultraprocessed food. And the second part of your quote is saying we can make anything toxic in a controlled exposure if we dose it high enough

MVissers 2y ago

Doc here. It’s hard to prove. You can’t do a double-blind randomized control trial. And we have barely learned to measure these nanoplastics. But there are starting to be strong correlations between the plastic occurrence and terrible diseases. Recent data on atherosclerosis + infarcts is horrible. Recent data on testes production of sperm cells also looks very damning. In summary, there are a few unexplained things in medicine that might very well be caused by plastics. Eg. More colon cancer in young people in the west. Eg. Declining sperm quality in the last 30 years in the west. Yes, it could be foods, but it doesn’t explain the whole picture. Plastics could be it. My guess is that a LOT of nasty studies will come out in the next years. I switched to glass and metal for all my food and water, for as much as I can control it.

whatshisface 2y ago
Another thing you can do to limit your exposure is to move far away from high-traffic roads. Tire dust is a major factor in exposure.
PontifexMinimus 2y ago
> You can’t do a double-blind randomized control trial. You could on animals.
- tasty_freeze 2y ago
  Yes, and I guarantee the first comment on that future HN article will be: "In mice" and dismiss the study.
yosito 2y ago
Aren't microplastics a much bigger problem in Asia than in the West? I would guess that the negative effects of microplastics would show up in Asia first, rather than the West.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  Depends. They are currently higher in Asia, but I would guess they were higher in the west before the last few decades.
amanaplanacanal 2y ago
We also don’t have a definitive cause of the obesity epidemic. It wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out to be caused by plastics exposure.

cynicalpeace 2y ago

This is why the term ”common sense” is a good term

evilos 2y ago
"Common sense" is basically the opposite of science.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  I like science, but that doesn't mean it has to be the end-all-be-all. Otherwise it would be a religion. There are situations where overthinking it is bad. Yes, obviously, microplastics in your brain are bad for you. Common sense. Any delay because "the science isn't there yet" does more harm than good.

dudisubekti 2y ago

There’s a review on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9885170/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9885170/ > Endocrine toxicity induced by MPs is an emerging issue, despite the subject being rarely documented, there is growing evidence for ingested MPs bioaccumulation in mammalian tissues and organs with deleterious outcomes including endocrine abnormalities, reproductive toxicity, gut microbiota dysbiosis, and defective immunological responses in rodents, rats and mice. And: > However, there are still no conclusive research reports that have determined the direct consequences of MPs and NPs on the hypothalamus, pituitary, and adrenal gland. However, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” These microplastics are definitely on the more suspicious side, just like tobacco use was.

hindsightbias 2y ago
In an alternate universe the onus of safety would reside with those introducing copious quantities of something into human environments. Unfortunately we do not live in that universe.
- dudisubekti 2y ago
  Yeah, safety takes decades to study conclusively, it’s simply antithetical to fast-paced industrial world. Sometimes I read accounts on industrial revolution England and think “how the heck people survive THAT.” Several decades from now there will be people who think of us the same way haha.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  If we took that approach with everything nobody would be using cellphones.
  - guerrilla 2y ago
    Nobody would be using cellphones now you mean. They would be evetually. The benefits of patience outweigh the costs.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago