2 ms·

> and would save them a lot of money. The fact that the GFCI is wired wrong doesn't matter--until it does and then things are expensive. The fact that your so

by bsder 2y ago

> and would save them a lot of money. The fact that the GFCI is wired wrong doesn't matter--until it does and then things are expensive. The fact that your solder joint on the plumbing is crap doesn't matter--until it does and then things are expensive. However, none of this is why Home Depot/Lowes are reporting numbers that are down. That's all about interest rates. Interest rates going up is slowing down house turnover. If your house isn't being sold, there isn't as much impetus to do work on it--especially when loans now cost more interest.

ein0p 2y ago
There’s literally a test button on any GFCI outlet or breaker which you can use to check if it’s wired right. And the wires are color coded and colors are marked on the back of the thing where you connect them. I pity the fool who pays several hundred dollars every time he/she needs to replace an electrical outlet.
- treis 2y ago
  I don't think this ensures that you've correctly wired downstream outlets. The move to GFCI/afci breakers should really help diy electrical work. Much harder to make something dangerous with that protection.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    You can buy a little outlet tester that includes a test for GFCI functionality for under 15 bucks. Anyone doing this kind of work at home should have one. And I get that it's more stuff to buy, but I've been learning that for all sorts of home repairs, even if I have to buy new tools to do it, and only use that tool once, I still come out cheaper than hiring someone to do it. Sometimes a lot cheaper.
oceanplexian 2y ago
> The fact that the GFCI is wired wrong doesn't matter--until it does and then things are expensive Then don’t do it wrong. Perhaps use the unprecedented access to information in all of human history that anyone with a smartphone has access to. You know how many times I’ve hired a contractor or an auto mechanic and they did something dangerous or completely incorrect? Hundreds of times. If you can watch a YouTube video and follow instructions, you too can achieve screwing in three wires and watching a green LED come on.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  The problem isn't skill, it's liability. If the insurance company doesn't see someone with a license doing the work, at best they'll screw you sideways with higher premiums and at worst refuse to insure you. If the local government doesn't see someone with a license doing the work, they won't let you do anything else (eg: sell the house) until you get someone with a license to (re)do the work in a liable way.
  - treis 2y ago
    This depends heavily on the city. My city (Atlanta) allows homeowners to pull permits and do their own work.
  - swsieber 2y ago
    Which is why you hire an electrician to come look it over. That's been the recommended route for electrical DIY since I've been searching stuff out on it.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    That depends on the local government, I guess. Where I live, I don't have to pull a permit to run a new GFCI outlet, and if I happen to do it wrong and my house burns down, the insurance company won't know who did the work. Regardless, your post illustrates the entire point here: people are afraid to do their own work for nebulous "liability" reasons. It's sad, really. I'm probably much more likely to die in a car crash than because of some botched DIY electrical work. Humans are terrible at assessing risk.
- smileysteve 2y ago
  To agree, Trust in professionals is often misplaced in my experience. Ie, I'm in a builder grade house, most screws aren't tight -including on switches that used push in wiring - and the terminal screws were close enough to the adjacent switch that they arced. Door handle and hinge screws also weren't tight, a 5 minute task tightening things will make them last years longer.
gedy 2y ago
> The fact that your solder joint on the plumbing is crap doesn't matter--until it does and then things are expensive. Sure, but DIY folks likely should use something like PEX and shark bite connectors
seasalty 2y ago
You are probably right about interest rates, but I also saw a lot of price gouging going on at Home Depot and basically stopped shopping there. When I had to shop there I compared everything against Amazon. They seemed to use a strategy where the big things were similar price as everywhere else and then a foam paint brush was $16 compared to 3 for $5 at Amazon. It broke my trust in Home Depot and I don't see them getting it back.
- caseyy 2y ago
  Specialist trade stores often have better quality or pricing, or better quality and pricing. Both Home Depot and Amazon are quite consumer-focused, so they can pull off some price skimming. 3 for $5 is not bad but I imagine you'd be able to get something trade quality for that price.
caseyy 2y ago
I hear this "it doesn't matter — until it matters" a lot. But it's a limited view that focuses on bad things that will occasionally happen, not placing equal emphasis on all the common benefits of repair. Consider this — 1 in 10 repairs, something will go wrong and the person doing DIY will either break the item or have to call a specialist in to rescue it. This means 9/10 times they will save money/keep the item out of waste if they were about to replace it, or save themselves an expensive servicing call. The benefits far outweigh the risks. We need to look at the bigger picture, not small hang-ups. Replacing GFCIs may even be prohibited in some scenarios, but that is by far not the only type of DIY handyman work that's going extinct. Phone batteries, electrical sockets, broken low voltage cables, fuses, car parts, painting walls, laying flooring and other such things can absolutely be done by 80% of the population, if they were to read one or two chapters on this type of work in a DIY book (which are plentiful).

by bsder 2y ago

ein0p 2y ago

There’s literally a test button on any GFCI outlet or breaker which you can use to check if it’s wired right. And the wires are color coded and colors are marked on the back of the thing where you connect them. I pity the fool who pays several hundred dollars every time he/she needs to replace an electrical outlet.

treis 2y ago
I don't think this ensures that you've correctly wired downstream outlets. The move to GFCI/afci breakers should really help diy electrical work. Much harder to make something dangerous with that protection.
- kelnos 2y ago
  You can buy a little outlet tester that includes a test for GFCI functionality for under 15 bucks. Anyone doing this kind of work at home should have one. And I get that it's more stuff to buy, but I've been learning that for all sorts of home repairs, even if I have to buy new tools to do it, and only use that tool once, I still come out cheaper than hiring someone to do it. Sometimes a lot cheaper.

oceanplexian 2y ago

> The fact that the GFCI is wired wrong doesn't matter--until it does and then things are expensive Then don’t do it wrong. Perhaps use the unprecedented access to information in all of human history that anyone with a smartphone has access to. You know how many times I’ve hired a contractor or an auto mechanic and they did something dangerous or completely incorrect? Hundreds of times. If you can watch a YouTube video and follow instructions, you too can achieve screwing in three wires and watching a green LED come on.

Dalewyn 2y ago
The problem isn't skill, it's liability. If the insurance company doesn't see someone with a license doing the work, at best they'll screw you sideways with higher premiums and at worst refuse to insure you. If the local government doesn't see someone with a license doing the work, they won't let you do anything else (eg: sell the house) until you get someone with a license to (re)do the work in a liable way.
- treis 2y ago
  This depends heavily on the city. My city (Atlanta) allows homeowners to pull permits and do their own work.
- swsieber 2y ago
  Which is why you hire an electrician to come look it over. That's been the recommended route for electrical DIY since I've been searching stuff out on it.
- kelnos 2y ago
  That depends on the local government, I guess. Where I live, I don't have to pull a permit to run a new GFCI outlet, and if I happen to do it wrong and my house burns down, the insurance company won't know who did the work. Regardless, your post illustrates the entire point here: people are afraid to do their own work for nebulous "liability" reasons. It's sad, really. I'm probably much more likely to die in a car crash than because of some botched DIY electrical work. Humans are terrible at assessing risk.
smileysteve 2y ago
To agree, Trust in professionals is often misplaced in my experience. Ie, I'm in a builder grade house, most screws aren't tight -including on switches that used push in wiring - and the terminal screws were close enough to the adjacent switch that they arced. Door handle and hinge screws also weren't tight, a 5 minute task tightening things will make them last years longer.

gedy 2y ago

> The fact that your solder joint on the plumbing is crap doesn't matter--until it does and then things are expensive. Sure, but DIY folks likely should use something like PEX and shark bite connectors

seasalty 2y ago

You are probably right about interest rates, but I also saw a lot of price gouging going on at Home Depot and basically stopped shopping there. When I had to shop there I compared everything against Amazon. They seemed to use a strategy where the big things were similar price as everywhere else and then a foam paint brush was $16 compared to 3 for $5 at Amazon. It broke my trust in Home Depot and I don't see them getting it back.

caseyy 2y ago
Specialist trade stores often have better quality or pricing, or better quality and pricing. Both Home Depot and Amazon are quite consumer-focused, so they can pull off some price skimming. 3 for $5 is not bad but I imagine you'd be able to get something trade quality for that price.

caseyy 2y ago

I hear this "it doesn't matter — until it matters" a lot. But it's a limited view that focuses on bad things that will occasionally happen, not placing equal emphasis on all the common benefits of repair. Consider this — 1 in 10 repairs, something will go wrong and the person doing DIY will either break the item or have to call a specialist in to rescue it. This means 9/10 times they will save money/keep the item out of waste if they were about to replace it, or save themselves an expensive servicing call. The benefits far outweigh the risks. We need to look at the bigger picture, not small hang-ups. Replacing GFCIs may even be prohibited in some scenarios, but that is by far not the only type of DIY handyman work that's going extinct. Phone batteries, electrical sockets, broken low voltage cables, fuses, car parts, painting walls, laying flooring and other such things can absolutely be done by 80% of the population, if they were to read one or two chapters on this type of work in a DIY book (which are plentiful).