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>Mercy San Juan hospital failed in its most fundamental duty to notify Jessie’s family of her death Despite the misconduct, I think saving people's lives is th

by croes 2y ago

>Mercy San Juan hospital failed in its most fundamental duty to notify Jessie’s family of her death Despite the misconduct, I think saving people's lives is the most fundamental duty of a hospital.

dgfitz 2y ago
Yeah: “we failed at our one job” should have been IMMEDIATELY expressed to the family.
layer8 2y ago
There can be multiple most fundamental duties: https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Maximal_Element_need_not_be_Unique https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Maximal_Element_need_not_be_Uniqu...
- vsuperpower2021 2y ago
  This is one of those things where people think that because they learned something in set theory 101 or intro to computers that it maps perfectly to real life situations.
  - ghufran_syed 2y ago
    Ok, let me translate it into non-math for you - there can be a goal that is a "highest priority" for the organisation in the sense that no other goal is a higher priority, and yet there are other goals for the organization that are equal to it in priority. Isn't "a Maximal Element need not be Unique" a more elegant and much more succinct way of saying the same thing?
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  Look, that's a great proof and all but it has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Just because mathematics say there can be two maximal elements doesn't mean morality agrees - and this is the domain of morality, not mathematics.
  - layer8 2y ago
    I disagree. When you say “I just had the most exhilarating experience”, that doesn’t mean that there can only be a single most exhilarating experience. And, independent of that, morality also doesn’t imply that there can be only one most fundamental duty.
    - vsuperpower2021 2y ago
      Ridiculous. Stop playing pointless language games.
- croes 2y ago
  But it says "its" not "one of its", that suggests only one maximum.
  - layer8 2y ago
    That doesn’t follow. “John failed in his duty to regularly check the logs” doesn’t imply that John can’t simultaneously have had any other duties. You have to parse it as “its (most fundamental duty to notify Jessie’s family of her death)”, not as “(its most fundamental duty) to (notify Jessie’s family of her death)”, so to speak.
polartx 2y ago
You are interpreting “fundamental” as ‘highest priority’, which is not the only, (or most commonly expressed) definition of the word. Fundamental is also defined as “so basic as to be hard to alter, resolve, or overcome.” I would argue that ‘saving lives’ is not a ‘basic’ process; it is complex. However, informing someone’s next-of-kin of their passing, is a basic (ie fundamental) role of a healthcare facility.

by croes 2y ago

>Mercy San Juan hospital failed in its most fundamental duty to notify Jessie’s family of her death Despite the misconduct, I think saving people's lives is the most fundamental duty of a hospital.

dgfitz 2y ago

Yeah: “we failed at our one job” should have been IMMEDIATELY expressed to the family.

layer8 2y ago

There can be multiple most fundamental duties: https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Maximal_Element_need_not_be_Unique https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Maximal_Element_need_not_be_Uniqu...

vsuperpower2021 2y ago
This is one of those things where people think that because they learned something in set theory 101 or intro to computers that it maps perfectly to real life situations.
- ghufran_syed 2y ago
  Ok, let me translate it into non-math for you - there can be a goal that is a "highest priority" for the organisation in the sense that no other goal is a higher priority, and yet there are other goals for the organization that are equal to it in priority. Isn't "a Maximal Element need not be Unique" a more elegant and much more succinct way of saying the same thing?
bigstrat2003 2y ago
Look, that's a great proof and all but it has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Just because mathematics say there can be two maximal elements doesn't mean morality agrees - and this is the domain of morality, not mathematics.
- layer8 2y ago
  I disagree. When you say “I just had the most exhilarating experience”, that doesn’t mean that there can only be a single most exhilarating experience. And, independent of that, morality also doesn’t imply that there can be only one most fundamental duty.
  - vsuperpower2021 2y ago
    Ridiculous. Stop playing pointless language games.
croes 2y ago
But it says "its" not "one of its", that suggests only one maximum.
- layer8 2y ago
  That doesn’t follow. “John failed in his duty to regularly check the logs” doesn’t imply that John can’t simultaneously have had any other duties. You have to parse it as “its (most fundamental duty to notify Jessie’s family of her death)”, not as “(its most fundamental duty) to (notify Jessie’s family of her death)”, so to speak.

polartx 2y ago

You are interpreting “fundamental” as ‘highest priority’, which is not the only, (or most commonly expressed) definition of the word. Fundamental is also defined as “so basic as to be hard to alter, resolve, or overcome.” I would argue that ‘saving lives’ is not a ‘basic’ process; it is complex. However, informing someone’s next-of-kin of their passing, is a basic (ie fundamental) role of a healthcare facility.