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How WW2 bombs across the Pacific are found and destroyed, decades after war
- weinzierl 2y agoWhat is often underestimated is the sheer amount of ammunition still found. On German mainland alone about 5000 WW2 bombs are destroyed every year. The "Kampfmittelräumdienstfahrzeug" is common sight at construction sites. Luckily accidents are rare and there are only between 1 and 2 self detonations per year. From what I've heard from my Vietnamese colleagues the situation there is similar. https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/909216/a5448dd84ac14a5b36fb93f400a4dff1/WD-2-032-22-pdf-data.pdf https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/909216/a5448dd84ac14a...
- Swizec 2y agoPeople still find unexploded WW1 munitions on the Isonzo front in the Alps. Regular iron harvests in Verdun too.
- jabl 2y agoIn France and Belgium, they dig up something like 900 tons on WWI munitions per year. At this pace they estimate that they're done in another 300-700 years. And the decomposing shells leach nasty stuff like mercury and arsenic, poisoning the soil. https://www.messynessychic.com/2015/05/26/the-real-no-go-zone-of-france-a-forbidden-no-mans-land-poisoned-by-war/ https://www.messynessychic.com/2015/05/26/the-real-no-go-zon...
- KingOfCoders 2y ago"In 2018, the British Ministry of Defence reported that 450 World War II bombs were made safe or defused since 2010 by disposal teams" and "In Berlin alone, 1.8 million pieces of ordnance have been defused between 1947 and 2018." and many other European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_bomb_disposal_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_bomb_disposal_in_...
- blueflow 2y agoMajor annoyance in Germany: If you find a mortar or a hand grenade in your garden. Do not try bring it to the police. Transporting it is a federal crime for citizens. Leave it in place and call them.
- elygre 2y agoFor a second there I thought you meant it was an annoyance that you couldn’t just pick it up and bring it on the bus to the police!
- mschuster91 2y ago> Major annoyance in Germany: If you find a mortar or a hand grenade in your garden. Do not try bring it to the police. That's not an annoyance, that's common sense. I mean, I get it, it's not like in Croatia or Bosnia where every child ever since the 90s wars gets "the talk" not about condoms but about "this is how ammunition looks like, and remember that the enemy also placed mines in everyday waste like cola cans or in children toys, DO NOT pick up random stuff you find while playing and stay THE FUCK out of fields and forests marked with 'Pažnja mine' signs"... but hey even in Germany everyone should know that picking up ammunition is one of the dumbest ways to off yourself. The only ones actually dumb enough to do that are people harvesting leftover ordnance for its explosives or to sell it on to "memorabilia" collectors [1], and headlines like [2] are routine whenever one of these collectors/harvesters either mishandles one of the items or they go off on their own. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWWGdxhSsS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWWGdxhSsS4 [2] https://www.rheinische-anzeigenblaetter.de/rhein-sieg/c-blaulicht/hennefer-munitionssammler-sorgt-fuer-grosseinsatz_a228914 https://www.rheinische-anzeigenblaetter.de/rhein-sieg/c-blau...
- nixass 2y agoI am in data center business and People wouldn't believe how many times we get a notification that WW2 bomb was found where the colo is building their new hall. It's not only an issue for a new build but also for existing data centers in the same campus. If you're running HDDs in your servers they are in for a ride in case bomb goes off
- willyt 2y agoThere’s a strip across France, the zone rouge, that’s too contaminated to farm because of WW1. There’s not even any effort to remove un exploded ordnance because the contamination means the land is unusable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_rouge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_rouge
- KptMarchewa 2y agoIf you look at google maps on images, there is farmland over much of the "red" zone, for example east of Arras.
- goodcanadian 2y agoThe zone rouge was defined immediately after the end of the war at a time when a devastated country was trying to rebuild. At the time, it made sense to say, "don't even waste your time here." In the intervening century, some of it has been cleaned up and rehabilitated. There are still areas that are too poisoned to grow food, though.
- mrweasel 2y agoFishermen coming in with old naval mines in their nets are a pretty common occurrence in Denmark. Those things are just crazy and it seems like dumb luck that almost no people aren't killed by them.
- sbsudbdjd 2y ago(Aside on why I appear blasé: I grew up riding across a heavily trafficked bridge to get to school that was aggressively but unsuccessfully bombed by the allies. They once found a big one and closed the bridge for a few days while they removed it, but there's no reason to believe that there aren't more to be found buried in the mud.) Well they didnt go off when they were supposed to and haven't gone off in 80 years -> there's a good chance there's something about them preventing them from going off. The main danger is that disturbing them could remove the inhibitor. Also, age can make them unstable. This is why we blissfully ignore the known unknown bombs that are everywhere in Europe but are extremely careful when we discover and try to remove one.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y agoDo the explosive compounds decompose into more or less volatile things with time? Or are they relatively shelf stable and the bulk material has roughly the same potential as when it was dropped?
- mjevans 2y agoIt might be nice if they had a chemical decay trigger that required regular replacement, or else they'd self-detonate. That should simplify cleanup.
- leobg 2y agoIf that shouldn’t be called “technical debt” I don’t know what else.
- Someone 2y ago> It might be nice if they had a chemical decay trigger that required regular replacement, or else they'd self-detonate I doubt anybody would want that in their storage bunkers. It’s worse enough to have munitions that may self-detonate if kept alone, but ones that are designed to do that? Also, such a system would have to be very robust. It would have to survive impact and explosions around it. I think this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition#Unexploded_ordnance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition#Unexploded_or...) would be more reliable: “In the 1980s the Spanish firm Esperanza y Cia developed a 120 mm caliber mortar bomb which contained 21 anti-armor submunitions. What made the 120 mm "Espin" unique was the electrical impact fusing system which totally eliminated dangerous duds. The system operated on a capacitor in each submunition which was charged by a wind generator in the nose of the projectile after being fired. If for whatever reason the electrical fuse fails to function on impact, approximately 5 minutes later the capacitor bleeds out, therefore neutralizing the submunition's electronic fuse system.” That comes close. You shouldn’t toss unexploded ones in a fire or run around with it to get its fan spinning, but it would make them fairly safe to handle.
- WJW 2y agoIt's not really all that desirable to have explosives detonate at unpredictable moments. Not all these bombs are in rural areas, many of them are in the middle of cities or otherwise in locations where it would be really really nice to warn surrounding citizens of any upcoming explosions so that they can make sure not to be nearby.
- somenameforme 2y agoMuch worse are cluster munitions. In Laos alone there are tens of millions of the 'bomblets', dropped in the 60s and 70s - without any war declared on Laos, still regularly killing and maiming thousands of people, primarily children. [1] [1] - https://www.npr.org/2023/07/11/1186949348/us-cluster-munitions-civilian-casualties-laos https://www.npr.org/2023/07/11/1186949348/us-cluster-munitio...
- H8crilA 2y agoBTW, this is the reason why many countries consider cluster munitions illegal. It's not about their effect during the conflict, it's about how long after the conflict these are still a problem. Unfortunately this type of weapons is hard to replace, and so many countries do not partake in the ban. They are just too good at eliminating soft targets, like trucks or infantry caught in the open. This includes countries like the US, Russia, or Ukraine. The latter will require many decades to clean up once the current conflict is over, there are millions or even tens of millions of small mines / bomblets scattered everywhere there had been fighting. They will have to tech children in schools how do common types (like the PFM-1) look like, from a very young age.
- InDubioProRubio 2y agoStill preferable to living in russia.
- bluGill 2y agoGenerally when you find munitions illegal it is because the country is allied with some other one that keeps them legal and is willing to take the heat for using them should they be needed. The other possibility is generals find the munition on worth the bother.
- user90131313 2y agoCrazy fact is this;: That works out to an almost incomprehensible one planeload every eight minutes for nearly a decade. how???
- rapnie 2y agoAnd then countless tons of ammunitions are dumped in seas all around the world (and in Swiss lakes). This Google map has info on chemical weapons dump site, stating 1.6 million tons dumped: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=5.36829237857024%2C0&z=2&mid=1ALnyOrN5JQ8H50znwJqI_Sj8IwE https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=5.36829237857024%2C0...
- dredmorbius 2y agoAs well as unintentional dumps, such as the SS Richard Montgomery: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery> Tom Scott did a great segment on this, and why it just sits with 1.5 megatons of explosives off the Thames estuary: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=R9u41aeItss https://yewtu.be/watch?v=R9u41aeItss>
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- refurb 2y agoRelated topic that I dug into was “how long did destroyed equipment lay around during WW2?”. There were tank battles (especially in Russia) where hundreds of tanks on both side were effectively destroyed. Now add in trucks, towed and mobile guns, etc. I was curious. Were they abandoned and scavenged for money after the war? Did they stay there and rust until years as the war? Did militaries take them for spare parts? Turns out that equipment was very quickly cleaned up when possible. Usually within days/weeks. Came across this incredibly detailed website with some amazing pictures and in depth information: https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/cleaning-up-after-wwii/ https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/cleaning-up-a...
- pjc50 2y agoThere's a great description in Naples 44 of a destroyed roadside tank "melting away like ice" as locals gradually break it up with hand tools to sell it for scrap.
- m4rtink 2y agoThe burned out hulks were usually dragged to a nearby tran station and tranported for scrapping over time. Heard from someone a while ago how they played in them as children, before all were eventually gone from the tran station.
- leobg 2y agoThat blog is incredible. Thanks for sharing.
- jajko 2y agoMy father as a kid, when playing in the forest where his aunt lived, came upon a huge pile of WWII ammunition just slowly rotting away. Mortar shell, grenades, tons of ammo, even pretty huge aircraft bomb. It wasn't some fenced area far away with massive warnings and guarded, nope just random place in forest. I mean literally small boy sitting on top of some 200kg bomb. Glad he didn't do something stupid wiping me out of existence. This was around 1960, former Czechoslovakia, eastern tip where heavy fighting occurred during WWII as soviets were rolling over german army. No idea how locals didn't go there, for small boys such things are like magnets.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pjc50 2y agoSee also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery : approximately 1,400 tonnes of explosives in shallow water close to London.
- nickdothutton 2y agoThere are 1.4KT of bombs sitting onboard just 1 ship at the bottom of the river Thames today[1]. As for free fall bombs, my great grandfather recounted to me the time he stood on the banks of the river at Battersea and watched them fall "like raindrops" into the dark waters. There they all sit, deep in the mud[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery [2] https://theworld.org/stories/2015/04/10/map-shows-where-all-bombs-fell-london-during-wwii https://theworld.org/stories/2015/04/10/map-shows-where-all-...
- euroderf 2y agoThe Richard Montgomery is quite a mess. I hope there is ongoing research somewhere about using robots to incrementally reduce a cache like this.
- fuzzfactor 2y agoHere's one from last week, way way across the Pacific in Ireland: https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cx2yxkpj3ryo https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cx2yxkpj3ryo