7 ms·

Looks like I still need a discord or a google account and can't just use regular email?

by k8sToGo 2y ago

layer8 2y ago
Yes, unfortunately. That’s a no-go for me.
- kxrm 2y ago
  I feel like this is an old man yells at cloud moment but I refuse to link social media or google accounts with other services. Why should Google's or Discord's policy dictate my participation in the web?
  - qclibre22 2y ago
    So google will rank them higher in search results?
  - layer8 2y ago
    They probably don’t want to deal with email registration workflows and want to limit themselves to OAuth, but that’s not user/customer-friendly.
  - mark242 2y ago
    Because the alternative is pretty provably worse for you, and for them. * You have to save your (hopefully unique!) email/password in a password manager which is effectively contradictory to your "I won't use a cloud service" argument. * The company needs to build out a whole email/password authentication flow, including forgetting your password, resetting your password, hints, rate limiting, etc etc, all things that Google/Apple have entire dedicated engineering teams tackling; alternatively, there are solid drop-in OAuth libraries for every major language out there. * Most people do not want to manage passwords and so take the absolute lazy route of reusing their passwords across all kinds of services. This winds up with breached accounts because Joe Smith decided to use his LinkedIn email/password on Midjourney. * People have multiple email addresses and as a result wind up forgetting which email address/password they used for a given site. Auth is the number one customer service problem on almost any service out there. When you look at the sheer number of tickets, auth failures and handholding always dominate time spent helping customers, and it isn't close. If Midjourney alienates 1 potential customer out of 100, but the other 99 have an easier sign-in experience and don't have to worry about any of the above, that is an absolute win.
    - mikae1 2y ago
      > People have multiple email addresses and as a result wind up forgetting which email address/password they used for a given site. Effectively you mean that people have multiple Google accounts?
    - kxrm 2y ago
      All very thoughtful arguments but I think this solution to these problems is flawed. I don't believe we should be solving authentication management problems by handing over all authentication capabilities and responsibilities to one or two mega companies. Especially since those companies can wield this enormous power by removing my access to this service because I may or may not have violated a policy unrelated to this service. There has to be a better way.
      - skybrian 2y ago
        There is: passkeys and alternative password managers.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        there's web3, where users have a private key and the public key is on a cryptocurrency chain, but adoption there has been slow. there's also a number of problems with that approach, but that's the other option on the table. I want to believe, but sadly there's no market for it. unless someone wants to start a privacy minded alternative to auth0, and figure out a business model that works , which is to say, are you willing to pay for this better way? are there enough other people willing to pay a company for privacy to make it a lucrative worthwhile business? because users are trained to think that software should be free-as-in-beer but unfortunately, developing software is expensive and those costs have to be recouped somehow. people say they want to pay, but revealed preferences are they don't.
      - mindcandy 2y ago
        While we are all waiting for the world to sort these problems out, companies that are not interested in solving them for the world will continue to use SSO techniques. I’m very not impressed by this deep, extended critique of machine learning researchers using common security best practices on the grounds that those practices involve an imperfect user experience for those requiring perfect anonymity…
  - stuffoverflow 2y ago
    Why not just make another google account that you solely use for registration in services like these? Use a virtual machine with VPN if you really do not want it to be linked with your real account. It is a bit of extra work but that's just how it is nowadays.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      Does not google require a telephone number to create accounts nowadays? In some regions there are no anonymous SIM cards by law. (Temporary number services may not work well.)
      - KolmogorovComp 2y ago
        Midjourney is a paid-only service anyway, you would need to enter your credit card, so no anonymity.
        mdp2021 2y ago
        There do exist anonymous credit cards, paid with cash, for fixed relatively small amounts (e.g. ~100u. In Europe there are restrictions to these kind of payment methods - cards must be below, I believe, 150€).
        layer8 2y ago
        The issue is you have to disclose your phone number to Google, not (just) to Midjourney, AND Google will know you use Midjourney. There's too much unnecessary connected PII data generated by such mechanisms.
        latexr 2y ago
        It is very much possible to create temporary credit cards linked to your real bank account for one-off purchases. Apple Card provides that as a service (US only) and other countries have similar systems that every bank adheres to. Plus, you may not mind not being anonymous to Midjourney but mind not being anonymous to some other service (like Google).
    - 2y ago
  - skybrian 2y ago
    Yeah, they should add Github support.
- jesterson 2y ago
  Would you mind to elaborate why? I hate google but I dont think it's such a biggie to avoid trying the tool
mrweasel 2y ago
While I understand that they might need some account or token to stop abuse, just having my sign in is a big no for anything I just want to try out. After the whole social media trend more or less collapsed into a privacy invading data collection nightmare, I've been extremely reluctant to sign up for anything.
- ffsm8 2y ago
  You honestly think giving full, no rate limited free access is viable in the LLM space, where each execution is actually pretty expensive? Because that's what you're asking for, as it'd be trivial to reset the rate without accounts.
  - stemlord 2y ago
    Chatgpt does it
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      No, it doesn't. you need to register for chatgpt.
      - lofenfew 2y ago
        go try it right now lol i assume they still have ip/browser fingerprint based rate limiting, but you can type in a prompt and get an answer with zero login or anything else.
        ffsm8 2y ago
        I'm prompted for a login/register. You're likely authenticating via Apple or Google social auth
      - fragmede 2y ago
        ChatGPT.com no longer requires registration to it ChatGPT-3.5.

Looks like I still need a discord or a google account and can't just use regular email?

layer8 2y ago

Yes, unfortunately. That’s a no-go for me.

kxrm 2y ago
I feel like this is an old man yells at cloud moment but I refuse to link social media or google accounts with other services. Why should Google's or Discord's policy dictate my participation in the web?
- qclibre22 2y ago
  So google will rank them higher in search results?
- layer8 2y ago
  They probably don’t want to deal with email registration workflows and want to limit themselves to OAuth, but that’s not user/customer-friendly.
- mark242 2y ago
  Because the alternative is pretty provably worse for you, and for them. * You have to save your (hopefully unique!) email/password in a password manager which is effectively contradictory to your "I won't use a cloud service" argument. * The company needs to build out a whole email/password authentication flow, including forgetting your password, resetting your password, hints, rate limiting, etc etc, all things that Google/Apple have entire dedicated engineering teams tackling; alternatively, there are solid drop-in OAuth libraries for every major language out there. * Most people do not want to manage passwords and so take the absolute lazy route of reusing their passwords across all kinds of services. This winds up with breached accounts because Joe Smith decided to use his LinkedIn email/password on Midjourney. * People have multiple email addresses and as a result wind up forgetting which email address/password they used for a given site. Auth is the number one customer service problem on almost any service out there. When you look at the sheer number of tickets, auth failures and handholding always dominate time spent helping customers, and it isn't close. If Midjourney alienates 1 potential customer out of 100, but the other 99 have an easier sign-in experience and don't have to worry about any of the above, that is an absolute win.
  - mikae1 2y ago
    > People have multiple email addresses and as a result wind up forgetting which email address/password they used for a given site. Effectively you mean that people have multiple Google accounts?
  - kxrm 2y ago
    All very thoughtful arguments but I think this solution to these problems is flawed. I don't believe we should be solving authentication management problems by handing over all authentication capabilities and responsibilities to one or two mega companies. Especially since those companies can wield this enormous power by removing my access to this service because I may or may not have violated a policy unrelated to this service. There has to be a better way.
    - skybrian 2y ago
      There is: passkeys and alternative password managers.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      there's web3, where users have a private key and the public key is on a cryptocurrency chain, but adoption there has been slow. there's also a number of problems with that approach, but that's the other option on the table. I want to believe, but sadly there's no market for it. unless someone wants to start a privacy minded alternative to auth0, and figure out a business model that works , which is to say, are you willing to pay for this better way? are there enough other people willing to pay a company for privacy to make it a lucrative worthwhile business? because users are trained to think that software should be free-as-in-beer but unfortunately, developing software is expensive and those costs have to be recouped somehow. people say they want to pay, but revealed preferences are they don't.
    - mindcandy 2y ago
      While we are all waiting for the world to sort these problems out, companies that are not interested in solving them for the world will continue to use SSO techniques. I’m very not impressed by this deep, extended critique of machine learning researchers using common security best practices on the grounds that those practices involve an imperfect user experience for those requiring perfect anonymity…
- stuffoverflow 2y ago
  Why not just make another google account that you solely use for registration in services like these? Use a virtual machine with VPN if you really do not want it to be linked with your real account. It is a bit of extra work but that's just how it is nowadays.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Does not google require a telephone number to create accounts nowadays? In some regions there are no anonymous SIM cards by law. (Temporary number services may not work well.)
    - KolmogorovComp 2y ago
      Midjourney is a paid-only service anyway, you would need to enter your credit card, so no anonymity.
      - mdp2021 2y ago
        There do exist anonymous credit cards, paid with cash, for fixed relatively small amounts (e.g. ~100u. In Europe there are restrictions to these kind of payment methods - cards must be below, I believe, 150€).
      - layer8 2y ago
        The issue is you have to disclose your phone number to Google, not (just) to Midjourney, AND Google will know you use Midjourney. There's too much unnecessary connected PII data generated by such mechanisms.
      - latexr 2y ago
        It is very much possible to create temporary credit cards linked to your real bank account for one-off purchases. Apple Card provides that as a service (US only) and other countries have similar systems that every bank adheres to. Plus, you may not mind not being anonymous to Midjourney but mind not being anonymous to some other service (like Google).
  - 2y ago
- skybrian 2y ago
  Yeah, they should add Github support.
jesterson 2y ago
Would you mind to elaborate why? I hate google but I dont think it's such a biggie to avoid trying the tool

mrweasel 2y ago

While I understand that they might need some account or token to stop abuse, just having my sign in is a big no for anything I just want to try out. After the whole social media trend more or less collapsed into a privacy invading data collection nightmare, I've been extremely reluctant to sign up for anything.

ffsm8 2y ago
You honestly think giving full, no rate limited free access is viable in the LLM space, where each execution is actually pretty expensive? Because that's what you're asking for, as it'd be trivial to reset the rate without accounts.
- stemlord 2y ago
  Chatgpt does it
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    No, it doesn't. you need to register for chatgpt.
    - lofenfew 2y ago
      go try it right now lol i assume they still have ip/browser fingerprint based rate limiting, but you can type in a prompt and get an answer with zero login or anything else.
      - ffsm8 2y ago
        I'm prompted for a login/register. You're likely authenticating via Apple or Google social auth
    - fragmede 2y ago
      ChatGPT.com no longer requires registration to it ChatGPT-3.5.