3 ms·

MIT admits presumably ~1000 students as freshmen each year (divide ~4k by 4 [1]) A baseline of 25% means 250 students. Are you going to make the claim that the

MIT admits presumably ~1000 students as freshmen each year (divide ~4k by 4 [1]) A baseline of 25% means 250 students. Are you going to make the claim that there aren't 250 students who identified as Black, Hispanic, and/or Native American and Pacific Islander that can't get either a perfect score or a score higher than somebody outside their group but admitted to MIT? [1]: https://registrar.mit.edu/stats-reports/enrollment-statistics-year/all https://registrar.mit.edu/stats-reports/enrollment-statistic...

x86a 2y ago
My assumption is that they exist, but are now competing in a larger pool of asian and white applicants - who may have better access to extracurricular opportunities that are still considered in admissions decisions - and therefore are less likely to be admitted.
gotoeleven 2y ago
Haha it is true that one solution to this problem is to truncate test scores on the right so your pool of applicants all look the same academically--then you can use swarthiness as a tiebreaker!
AlanYx 2y ago
>Are you going to make the claim that there aren't 250 students who identified as Black, Hispanic, and/or Native American and Pacific Islander that can't get either a perfect score... Sometimes that is what happens with some standardized tests. For the LSAT for example, there are years where no black or latino test takers score above 174 on the LSAT. See e.g., figure 14 here: https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/research/tr-22-01_june-2023-edition_accessible.pdf https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/research/tr-22-01_j...
- FredPret 2y ago
  Interesting thing about the Gaussian curves on pages 34 & 39 giving the performance by gender and race: the smartest group, by quite a bit, is the group that put their race as "No Response".
  - polotics 2y ago
    Personally, my race is "human" (I swear!) and I identify as not identifying much, so go go team Non Responder!
TMWNN 2y ago
>Are you going to make the claim that there aren't 250 students who identified as Black, Hispanic, and/or Native American and Pacific Islander that can't get either a perfect score or a score higher than somebody outside their group but admitted to MIT? As AlanYx said, yes, that's quite possible. Another example: Americans do well on PISA compared to their ethnic relatives. <https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-new-2018-pisa-school-test-scores-usa-usa/ https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-new-2018-pisa-school-test-sco...> Asian Americans do better than Asians; whites do better than Europeans; Latinos do better than Latin Americans; and blacks do better than Africans. Hispanics and especially blacks' scores drag the US average down. Both white and Asian Americans score higher than Canada (and white+Asian is essentially Canada's racial makeup), and higher than New Zealand, Australia, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, Norway, and the UK; Estonia is below US Asians but above white Americans. Norway is by far the wealthiest Nordic state but its average is only two points higher than the US national average, despite not having a demographic that is 13% of the population and scores 85 points below the white American average. (The above discusses 2018 results. 2022 results: <https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1732087511327908128 https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1732087511327908128>)

x86a 2y ago

My assumption is that they exist, but are now competing in a larger pool of asian and white applicants - who may have better access to extracurricular opportunities that are still considered in admissions decisions - and therefore are less likely to be admitted.

gotoeleven 2y ago

Haha it is true that one solution to this problem is to truncate test scores on the right so your pool of applicants all look the same academically--then you can use swarthiness as a tiebreaker!

AlanYx 2y ago

>Are you going to make the claim that there aren't 250 students who identified as Black, Hispanic, and/or Native American and Pacific Islander that can't get either a perfect score... Sometimes that is what happens with some standardized tests. For the LSAT for example, there are years where no black or latino test takers score above 174 on the LSAT. See e.g., figure 14 here: https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/research/tr-22-01_june-2023-edition_accessible.pdf https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/research/tr-22-01_j...

FredPret 2y ago
Interesting thing about the Gaussian curves on pages 34 & 39 giving the performance by gender and race: the smartest group, by quite a bit, is the group that put their race as "No Response".
- polotics 2y ago
  Personally, my race is "human" (I swear!) and I identify as not identifying much, so go go team Non Responder!

TMWNN 2y ago

>Are you going to make the claim that there aren't 250 students who identified as Black, Hispanic, and/or Native American and Pacific Islander that can't get either a perfect score or a score higher than somebody outside their group but admitted to MIT? As AlanYx said, yes, that's quite possible. Another example: Americans do well on PISA compared to their ethnic relatives. <https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-new-2018-pisa-school-test-scores-usa-usa/ https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-new-2018-pisa-school-test-sco...> Asian Americans do better than Asians; whites do better than Europeans; Latinos do better than Latin Americans; and blacks do better than Africans. Hispanics and especially blacks' scores drag the US average down. Both white and Asian Americans score higher than Canada (and white+Asian is essentially Canada's racial makeup), and higher than New Zealand, Australia, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, Norway, and the UK; Estonia is below US Asians but above white Americans. Norway is by far the wealthiest Nordic state but its average is only two points higher than the US national average, despite not having a demographic that is 13% of the population and scores 85 points below the white American average. (The above discusses 2018 results. 2022 results: <https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1732087511327908128 https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1732087511327908128>)