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If you want metaphysical certitude, then some people seem to find that in religion, though I never was able to. Models are what we have, and yes, rather limited

If you want metaphysical certitude, then some people seem to find that in religion, though I never was able to. Models are what we have, and yes, rather limited. To me, that's terrifying because it means that there could be truly world-ending, mass-extinction level consequences lurking in these systems. And we know that events like that have happened in the history of the Earth when the carbon cycle is thrown off balance. My biggest comfort in all this is that I don't have children who I will have to explain this to or who will live to see the consequences; frankly, I'm scared of the consequences I'll live to see.

_heimdall 2y ago
> To me, that's terrifying because it means that there could be truly world-ending, mass-extinction level consequences lurking in these systems. "Could be" is the real key there in my opinion. We simply don't know. And I don't mean that in any kind of climate change denial sense, those arguments fall into the same trap as anyone arguing that we definitely know how and why climate will change and why it is changing. We don't have the data for it, and a system on the scale of the entire planet is simply too complex to be able to predict. My big worry when it comes to climate isn't what mass extinction events could be coming, its the fear that potential creates. Fear as scale always leads to bad outcomes. Fear gives us authoritarians, bigotry, wars, and on and on. We need to recognize that society is almost certainly drastically outstripping planetary boundaries. Once we accept that we need to move towards simple changes we can make like reducing consumption, and we need to focus heavily on embracing the uncertainty of life rather than fearing it.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  What does it mean to embrace the uncertainty of life? I live a very uncertain existence myself, and for me it has meant never putting down any kind of roots or committing to anything that I can't escape easily.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Sure, I'd expect it looks different for everyone. I would propose that a common thread should likely include a lack of, or at least control over, fear of the unknown.
    - silverquiet 2y ago
      Should one only fear the known? The known is far less scary as it can at least be anticipated and perhaps accommodated. Unknowns are the death of all my plans. It's like telling me not to worry about the things I can't control; why the hell would I worry about the things I can control?
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        I'd absolutely propose that people should only fear the known, and what they can control. Acknowledging what is unknown or out of your control is important, but fearing those is just paralyzing. Fear can be an excellent motivator, but its only useful when you can actually do something about it.

_heimdall 2y ago

> To me, that's terrifying because it means that there could be truly world-ending, mass-extinction level consequences lurking in these systems. "Could be" is the real key there in my opinion. We simply don't know. And I don't mean that in any kind of climate change denial sense, those arguments fall into the same trap as anyone arguing that we definitely know how and why climate will change and why it is changing. We don't have the data for it, and a system on the scale of the entire planet is simply too complex to be able to predict. My big worry when it comes to climate isn't what mass extinction events could be coming, its the fear that potential creates. Fear as scale always leads to bad outcomes. Fear gives us authoritarians, bigotry, wars, and on and on. We need to recognize that society is almost certainly drastically outstripping planetary boundaries. Once we accept that we need to move towards simple changes we can make like reducing consumption, and we need to focus heavily on embracing the uncertainty of life rather than fearing it.

silverquiet 2y ago
What does it mean to embrace the uncertainty of life? I live a very uncertain existence myself, and for me it has meant never putting down any kind of roots or committing to anything that I can't escape easily.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Sure, I'd expect it looks different for everyone. I would propose that a common thread should likely include a lack of, or at least control over, fear of the unknown.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    Should one only fear the known? The known is far less scary as it can at least be anticipated and perhaps accommodated. Unknowns are the death of all my plans. It's like telling me not to worry about the things I can't control; why the hell would I worry about the things I can control?
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      I'd absolutely propose that people should only fear the known, and what they can control. Acknowledging what is unknown or out of your control is important, but fearing those is just paralyzing. Fear can be an excellent motivator, but its only useful when you can actually do something about it.