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“Something has gone seriously wrong,” dual-boot systems warn after MS update
- oldpersonintx 2y agoreinstall with only linux, problem solved get rid of secure boot, more problems solved if you run Windows in 2024 you deserve all the misery you get
- Kokouane 2y agoThis is great when you completely discount almost all gamers or people doing graphical work? Proton is only so good and many games are still completely broken.
- GoofballJones 2y agoThey'll always come back with "Just use GIMP. It's as powerful as Photoshop." Yeah, maybe Photoshop in 1999.
- mrinfinitiesx 2y agoWe'll come back with 'We don't pay monthly subscription models for shady companies like adobe who then charge you a large fee just to cancel your monthly subscription fee to use photoshop' there's cool things like photopea, but yeah there's no rebuttal for Windows only and Windows-specific made software. To each their own. I'm rooting for linux desktop to be the future though. For gamers, for photo editors, artists. All of us.
- t0bia_s 2y agoAdobe softwate is best we have on market on audio-visual production. Thats why it has monopoly. I really would like to use just linux many years, but I cannot because I'm unable to compete without Adobe software.
- talldayo 2y ago> Adobe softwate is best we have on market on audio-visual production. It's good, but besides Premier I really don't think many of Adobe's products are hot shit nowadays. You can do most of the same compositing you do in Sony Vegas with Blender and Davinci Resolve; today's tools are diverse enough that you don't need Adobe. And for music production and photo editing, I don't even think Adobe is a competitor. Affinity Photo eats Photoshop's lunch, and everyone else that wasn't going to pay for a photo editor can use GIMP or Photopea. Unless you explicitly work at an Adobe-only shop, I really see no reason to continue using modern Adobe products. The value is just so bad compared to what you can buy elsewhere.
- t0bia_s 2y agoAfter Effects does not have competition. Adobe product has dynamic-links between each others, so you can easily make cut in Premiere, motion graphic in After Effects with assets from Photoshop, sound and music in Audition and all changes are visible instantly in one project. For photography unfortunately all other editors are impractical, except Capture One which has even worse price policy. Don't let me start with collaboration with other studios or plugin compatibility. While Affinity might be true alternative for Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator, it is not compatible with linux.
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- daft_pink 2y agoi’m just so over microsoft. mac is expensive, but otherwise great. nixos is awesome. have to use a windows vm for work, but thankfully IT deals with it. when microsoft launched wsl, I thought it would be amazing, but all their forced bing integration has driven me nuts and i’m out on them.
- unshavedyak 2y agoI'm on nixos but honestly tempted to move to mac and nix. I love Nix as an idea and it's flawless for me most of the time, but that little friction i get trying something new is a bit of a pain.
- daft_pink 2y agoNix is so awesome. I use Claude ai refactor parts of my os into modules so I can just turn them on and off and it does an awesome job! My concern with using Nix on Mac is that the uninstall is not as good so you can’t just comment out something and the Mac will just eliminate it from your system and it will be gone, but I’m considering switching to Nix darwin as well. Let me know how it goes for you!
- unshavedyak 2y agoOh i've been using Nix on mac for quite a while. Not sure about the uninstall, but recently i did a fresh macbook install and used the Determinate Systems Nix Installer[1]. I haven't tried uninstalling, but installation was a joy by comparison to the traditional way (and poor documentation). [1]: https://determinate.systems/posts/determinate-nix-installer/ https://determinate.systems/posts/determinate-nix-installer/
- daft_pink 2y agoI will try it. When I said uninstalling, I mean the way you can just comment out a program in the configuration file on a nix system and poof it is no longer installed in your system and it’s like it was never installed at all.
- tedajax 2y agoOne of the more satisfying things I do with new computers is disable secure boot.
- JohnFen 2y agoThat's the first thing I do, too. Given my own security needs, secure boot brings much more pain than benefit to me.
- pepa65 2y agoSecure Boot can be leveraged to more securely boot anything you choose, but it does require some setup effort, so I get it if you choose to keep things simple (but less secure).
- gpvos 2y agoWhy would anyone use GRUB to boot only Windows?
- adrian_b 2y agoIn my opinion there is no reason for using GRUB for any purpose. I have considered it obsolete and I have stopped using it more than a decade ago. For the purpose of booting multiple operating systems on the same computer, including with multiple versions of the Linux kernel, I just keep a set of small USB memories, one for each operating system that I want to boot, which are formatted with FAT32 and which contain, in the case of Linux, the kernel, the initramfs file and syslinux to boot them. This is much safer and much more foolproof than having a multiple boot configuration on the computer, which can be damaged by Windows at any time. Even for people who do not want to boot from external memories, GRUB is not needed, because now multiple boot can be done from the UEFI menu, which can boot directly a Linux kernel without any extra boot manager.
- asveikau 2y agoSyslinux? Has that been ported to efi? I have one machine, maybe a year old, that won't boot legacy bios anymore. Edit: yes, apparently there is a kind of barebones UEFI port. In that scenario syslinux is doing the work of grub. There is nothing about grub inherently saying you need to multiboot with it.
- suby 2y agoThere is a limit to how much time I want to spend learning how to do things like that, and then configuring and dealing with a broken system when my exploration goes awry. It's a valid reason.
- bubblesnort 2y agoBecause last time I installed MS-Windows 10 it had the most beautiful unlimited blinking cursor in the corner and nothing else. Until I installed GRUB from a GNU+Linux live CD whose root fs wasn't an actual device and that broke grub-probe. But fortunately grub-mkconfig is a shell script. I don't know why it failed but it did and Grub saved the day.
- jeroenhd 2y ago> but for unclear reasons, Microsoft patched it only last Tuesday I think it's obvious why Microsoft has only recent patched the issue: because Linux distros really lag behind on se curie issues like these. Hence the warning some people receive: they're still using a vulnerable boot configuration that was fixed two years ago. In a similar vein, Microsoft waited a year before automatically releasing a secure boot related patch that affected Windows, so system administrators wouldn't be blindsided: https://msrc.microsoft.com/blog/2023/05/guidance-related-to-secure-boot-manager-changes-associated-with-cve-2023-24932/ https://msrc.microsoft.com/blog/2023/05/guidance-related-to-... The impact of these patches is minor for most consumer devices, but for corporate environments where IT may need to go around entering Bitlocker recovery keys in some edge cases (and where recovery media needs to be made using a recent ISO or it won't work), people need a reasonable time to prepare.
- bediger4000 2y agoAs someone who remembers 1990-2000, I'm always amazed that these little bugs always seem to just randomly favor Microsoft. It's kind of miraculous, really. A Windows update roaches the Linux part of dual boot. How about that, nothing could be done.
- nerdjon 2y agoI am a bit curious how exactly Microsoft planned to identify that a machine was dual booting linux. Looking for certain files on a random partition? A list of distros and versions? A partition type? Anything seems to be error prone and likely to miss something.
- not_doctorq 2y agoBased on the article, but I’m still not sure if this is the case, it seems like they checked for a specific shim(s), which would be on the EFI partition that everything shares.
- diggan 2y agoMaybe port `os-prober` to Windows? Has been a relatively stable solution for me for probably decades at this point, and hasn't missed anything yet, but maybe I'm not doing enough esoteric setups.
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- abhinavk 2y agoCheck the files in EFI partition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_system_partition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_system_partition
- pepa65 2y agoIn an UEFI-centered world, you can just look where the bios would look.
- mook 2y agoI wonder if they were checking for extra entries in the Windows boot config database instead (i.e. Windows chain loading grub), but most people go the other way?
- jansommer 2y agoLots of hate on Microsoft for doing this, but SBAT was made exactly for this reason: To deny boot loaders with known vulnerabilities to boot an operating system that might not be the one you think. Might as well disable secure boot if that's not a concern, or make sure the boot loader is up to date if dual booting Windows 11. I can't imagine new machines shipping without SB.
- InDubioProRubio 2y agoIt all boils down to- is there someone, who is willing to put in the money to review available boot options, manually.. cause if that is not the case. Might aswell deactivate secure-boot.
- jansommer 2y agoWouldn't rely on SB 100% but I think Shim + UKI is Good Enough for most consumers...
- practicemaths 2y agoGenuine question. What's the practical difference between duel-booting and running Win-11 in VM? I understand there's some performance differences, obviously. And VM requires perhaps a bit more setup and understanding. However, is it reasonable to VM Win-11 to mediate SB concerns AND be able to have access to basic windows software and services since they're used a lot by industry and universities? i.e. that is I just need access to Onedrive and MS office for the most part.
- not_the_fda 2y agoIf its just basic apps, there is no reason to dual boot, a VM is less of a hassle. If you want to run games, then dual-booting may be necessary if proton won’t work for the game you want to run in Linux.
- dkersten 2y agoGPU passthrough should work for a lot of cases. The games that are most likely to have problems are the ones with draconian drm or anti cheat. I avoid those, so protón tends to work for me anyway, so I don’t bother with windows.
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- tristor 2y agoSaw a lot of people get nailed by this in the Framework community. On the flip-side, if you eschew Microsoft products completely, I've had a really good experience (for the most part) using Secure Boot with custom keys on Linux on my Framework 13 AMD laptop. I am using Arch, and have it setup to build UKIs that are signed automatically via a post-build hook using `sbctl` and EFI booting using systemd-boot. As much as I generally dislike SystemD, if you go all-in on it, it does work relatively well on modern hardware. Shim is really only required on Linux when dual-booting, and really only because the entire Trusted Computing Platform architecture is not user-centric and is designed around the needs of Microsoft more than any other entity. But because they at least paid lip-service to users, you have the ability to just eliminate Microsoft keys entirely on your system and go all-in on custom Secure Boot w/ Linux. I am hard-pressed to find a reason for any moderately technical user to still be running Windows in 2024, as most important productivity tools are primarily or at least optionally web-based, and Linux is significantly better in every other capacity.
- neilv 2y agoThis is another reason not to do dual-boot, but to just use Linux. Here's a good litmus test for a company we're considering joining: do at least their engineers (if not their PowerPoint+Excel biz people) use Linux for their laptops, not only for their servers? If they do use Linux, I'm just going to assert that they're likely more clueful than average. Similar with startup hiring. Two options for this: (1) give a resume-screening boost to people who seem to have bought into Linux; or (2) announce in your job posts that the company pragmatically uses Linux for everything, to attract people who see that as clueful, and scare away a lot of others. (Unfortunately, #2 also alienates some mostly-clueful people who really like Macs, and maybe even some clueful people who, through some cruel accident of history and gaming rigs, only know how to do Windows.) (Actually, even more than Linux, I suspect that a startup using a BSD would probably be more technically clueful than the average Linux shop. Because some fringe tech seems to attracts the smartest and/or best-motivated techies disproportionately. But I'd say Linux is a sweeter spot overall for more startups.)
- orev 2y agoThis is a terrible way to evaluate companies/people, and it comes off as a “Linux person” who refuses to understand why companies use Windows. The fact is that Windows has leagues more control features (Group Policy, etc.) than Linux does, and those features are required for any kind of sane management of an IT landscape, and are also required in many industries for compliance reasons. And no, Ansible etc. is not the same thing. The better way to evaluate is to discuss why they chose that tool for any particular job. Linux is often the right answer for servers, and Windows often the right answer for end user computers. But there may be cases where a specific case is better suited to a different tool.
- gradientsrneat 2y agoHanlon's razor comes to mind, but it seems like a huge oversight for Debian and Debian-based distros like Ubuntu and Mint to break. That's a large proportion of the Linux userbase. I wonder if this affects Debian more generally or does the installation method matter?
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- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y agoAnd I was definitely hit by this on Kubuntu LTS fully updated. I still keep Windows for gaming.
- lousken 2y agohopefully everyone with dual boot asks themselves if they still need windows after doing this stuff
- ocodo 2y agoSet a bios password so that Windows can't screw around with UEFI.