6 ms·

This won't work. None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked. Not that the individual subsystems don't work effectively on their o

This won't work. None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked. Not that the individual subsystems don't work effectively on their own, but that the entire vehicle is becoming a less safe place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year#/media/File:United_States_Motor_Vehicle_Deaths_per_Year.webp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in... There's two main contributing factors, weight and distraction. Weight is easy to tell by looking around. More people than ever are driving around in huge SUVs and pickup trucks. But the bigger issue is distracted driving. The majority of other drivers I see are on their phones while moving. Almost everybody is checking their phones at intersections. And those that aren't have another distraction, the big tablets built into their cars, the use of which is required to change trivial settings. Adding more tech won't solve this. Only removing and limiting its use will roll back this trend.

davidmurdoch 2y ago
> None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked Forward Collision-Avoidance systems really great.
- jiveturkey 2y ago
  i disable mine. 100% false positives. agree though, great for the masses.
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    You might be an aggressive driver. haha
    - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
      Eh, phantom braking is definitely a problem. It's gotten better, for sure, but I've definitely had times where there was nothing within 1/4 mile in front of me on the highway and suddenly it slammed the brakes. When I first got my Tesla in 2019, there was one specific overpass that I would go under during my commute that seemed to have a ~20% chance of triggering automatic emergency braking. I got into the habit of preparing to stomp the throttle which would override AEB. Luckily, a software update came out a few months in that seemed to fix that specific case. Now, I've done 1,300 mile road trips that didn't have a single phantom braking incident.
- dopylitty 2y ago
  Except they barely work for cars[0] and don’t work at all for pedestrians[1] 0: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emergency-braking-absent-when-you-need-it-most/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emerg... 1: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26469713/iihs-testing-suv-automated-braking-pedestrians/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26469713/iihs-testing-suv...
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    They work very well on cars[0] 0: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emergency-braking-absent-when-you-need-it-most/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emerg...
- cmiller1 2y ago
  I've experienced this in a Subaru CrossTrek, several times while driving down back roads it started beeping at me "OBSTACLE DETECTED" and then slammed on the brakes when there was nothing in front of me.
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    Back roads meaning dirt roads? Could it be the cameras mistaking dust for an obstacle?
    - cmiller1 2y ago
      Nope, just regular old paved winding back roads.
HPsquared 2y ago
Couple of comments on that chart: 1. It doesn't account for miles travelled 2. I see a downward trend since the 1970s with a bit of variation and a recent "lockdown peak". I'm just not seeing an increasing trend overall. There was certainly a notable increase from 2013 to 2016, but that's about all you could say. You'd need 2023-2024 data to see if the recent increase was due to lockdowns.
- JBorrow 2y ago
  At some level this is an almost uniquely American problem; see similar statistics here from Great Britain: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2022/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2022 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua..., Australia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i... which have been dropping rapidly since the 1970s. So, relative to other very similar countries, the U.S. is doing much worse.
  - bfrog 2y ago
    These countries also presumably enforce stricter licensing laws, charge appropriately for driving urban tanks (American pick ups), and actually enforce some traffic laws with serious consequences not a slap on the wrist with inexpensive tickets.
davedx 2y ago
Distractions are often the safety systems themselves! Over the last 4 years, my Model 3 has progressively started beeping and chiming more and more at me, taking over my steering because it thinks I'm drifting out of my lane when I'm trying to actually change lanes, chimes because it thinks I'm going to run over a pedestrian or crash when there's actually a bend in the road - every year there is more of this and none of it works reliably. Other cars are similar but different. I dread what cars are slowly turning into. Yet most people are still myopically focused on the drawbacks of touchscreens instead of hardware knobs.
- wlesieutre 2y ago
  > taking over my steering because it thinks I'm drifting out of my lane when I'm trying to actually change lanes Isn’t this avoided by using your turn signal? That’s how Mazda’s works
  - hunter2_ 2y ago
    That's how VW works as well, when the next lane is clear. But if you're on a collision course according to the blind spot monitoring system, a turn signal won't suppress anything and temporarily makes for what feels like extra-aggressive lane keep. This is great if you failed to notice the other vehicle, but it does maintain a bit more buffer than some practiced weavers would find necessary (like during a lane change that would be cutting someone off if not for sufficient acceleration to produce a reasonable gap albeit on the late side).
    - mmastrac 2y ago
      Are you admitting to weaving in and out of other traffic? That is insanely dangerous and I've been nearly hit by drivers like this repeatedly over the years. Maybe there's a good reason the safety system of the car is fighting you on this
      - hunter2_ 2y ago
        No. I've experienced this (insufficient gap for BSM to be satisfied) during collision avoidance maneuvers where a lane change of this nature was the better option than getting smashed, and based on that experience, I can realize that weavers would mistakenly think LKA is repeatedly interfering with lane changes (a bad thing) when it's actually BSM doing so (a good thing).
Workaccount2 2y ago
People just love trucks that are practically purpose built to kill pedestrians and motorcyclists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU Thank you Ryan from Fortnine.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  Gigantic trucks save the lives of people stuck on the kidney waitlist.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  There are people that love high trucks like that and simply do not care that it makes their truck more dangerous to others just for their own aesthetic preferences. It's simply not their problem. Some would even claim the added danger is a feature that incentivizes others to stay out of their way.
WinstonSmith84 2y ago
> But the bigger issue is distracted driving Certainly right, but staying focused while driving in countries with a lot of speed traps is impossible. You put your limiter, move at a snail pace and it's truly boring (for experienced drivers - not experienced drivers will be alert and stressed and that's maybe good). As an experienced driver, you either fall asleep or you just use your smartphone or whatever
- verzali 2y ago
  If you are seriously getting that bored when driving then I'm sorry, but you should not be on the road. You are a danger to everyone around you. It's incredible that you think you need to drive fast or you'll fall asleep.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  Crazy stuff. Why is there an expectation that driving should be "not boring"? How do you think people handled this boredom before smartphones?
- jcranmer 2y ago
  If you are tempted to fall asleep or distract yourself while driving, you are not an experienced driver. Part of the experience one needs to gain as a driver is how to keep the necessary focus for driving, or at the very least, recognizing that maintaining that focus is impossible and therefore not driving. If driving the appropriate speed is difficult for you to do undistracted, then you need to find ways to improve your driving skills instead of blaming the law for saying that you're a bad driver.
diggan 2y ago
> This won't work. None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked. Not that the individual subsystems don't work effectively on their own, but that the entire vehicle is becoming a less safe place. It looks like this is a US-specific issue, which isn't really highlighted in your comment. In other countries, it seems like the "motor vehicle fatality rate" has decreased for the last decade, some years more than others. The three other countries I checked were Australia, Japan and Iceland, as those had comparable pages on Wikipedia as the one you linked: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22Motor+vehicle+fatality+rate+in%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22Motor+vehicle...
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
You're making conclusions that are completely unsupported by your arguments. You say "none of the 'safety technology' we've added in the last decade has worked.", but then go on to lament the deaths caused by rising vehicle weights, and distracted driving, primarily on cell phones. But most of the safety tech introduced in the last 10 years (or at least that is much more prevalent in the last 10 years) are things like collision avoidance systems, mandatory backup cameras, lane change warnings, etc., that have nothing to do with weight nor distracted driving. Yes, I agree increasing vehicle weights and distracted driving are a huge problem. But then saying "Adding more tech won't solve this. Only removing and limiting its use will roll back this trend." is a completely unwarranted conclusion.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
MisterTea 2y ago
> There's two main contributing factors, weight and distraction. We cant ignore reckless drivers. Since COVID I noticed a large trend in people strait up not giving a damn about anyone and driving as fast and recklessly as they can. EVERY SINGLE DAY I see street racing on the highway in traffic, speeding, large SUV's bullying smaller cars, people chasing each other in either road rage incidents or racing, and yes swerving around as if they're the only one on the road while playing with phones - utterly insane behavior. I have to drive with eyes in the back of my head. Just last week a co-worker witnessed someone driving over 100 MPH on a highway with a 50/55 MPH limit while throwing trash out the sunroof and then trying to squeeze between two cars that were in his royal highness' way. They didn't fit, side swiped one of the cars, lost control and caused a severe accident he was almost involved in. The same week another coworker was forced off the highway by a big stupid jeep who he saw make eye contact with him but didn't care and forced him to swerve onto the grass shoulder. What the hell is going on in these peoples heads? Why is there so much selfish bravado? Why all the bullying? Why are we forced to be victims to these clowns? Why is no one doing anything about this?
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  Were they a Nissan, dodge, or Chrysler driver? I’ve noticed drivers of these three brands are extra terrible, and the RAM 1500 has the highest (by far) DUI rate for any vehicle. If you drive any of those brands I will treat you like a maniac, and I’m usually right.
  - MisterTea 2y ago
    In my neck of the woods the obnoxious car crowd is comprised of slammed shit boxes which are mainly BMW followed by Infinity with a smattering of Honda and Lexus. The rest are morons with Mustangs/Chargers/Camaros - all the same car really and my friend calls all of them a Charlstamaro. For the SUV crowd you have jacked up jeeps with "angry eye" body kits along with a mix of pickups from the major 3 and the asshats in Escalades. Any BMW is to be avoided.
Der_Einzige 2y ago
That chart doesn’t say what you think it says Fatalities per mile and injuries per mile are down, and the safety/security systems are strictly net benefits. Americans are driving more than in the past and in more vehicles. The real issue is that Americans do t give a shit anymore, are distracted as hell, and in general trust in society has declined. Low trust societies have insane road cultures, and the decaying state of the average driver is a reflection on the decaying state of Anerica trust in society.

davidmurdoch 2y ago

> None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked Forward Collision-Avoidance systems really great.

jiveturkey 2y ago
i disable mine. 100% false positives. agree though, great for the masses.
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  You might be an aggressive driver. haha
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    Eh, phantom braking is definitely a problem. It's gotten better, for sure, but I've definitely had times where there was nothing within 1/4 mile in front of me on the highway and suddenly it slammed the brakes. When I first got my Tesla in 2019, there was one specific overpass that I would go under during my commute that seemed to have a ~20% chance of triggering automatic emergency braking. I got into the habit of preparing to stomp the throttle which would override AEB. Luckily, a software update came out a few months in that seemed to fix that specific case. Now, I've done 1,300 mile road trips that didn't have a single phantom braking incident.
dopylitty 2y ago
Except they barely work for cars[0] and don’t work at all for pedestrians[1] 0: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emergency-braking-absent-when-you-need-it-most/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emerg... 1: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26469713/iihs-testing-suv-automated-braking-pedestrians/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26469713/iihs-testing-suv...
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  They work very well on cars[0] 0: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emergency-braking-absent-when-you-need-it-most/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/09/braking-bad-automatic-emerg...
cmiller1 2y ago
I've experienced this in a Subaru CrossTrek, several times while driving down back roads it started beeping at me "OBSTACLE DETECTED" and then slammed on the brakes when there was nothing in front of me.
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  Back roads meaning dirt roads? Could it be the cameras mistaking dust for an obstacle?
  - cmiller1 2y ago
    Nope, just regular old paved winding back roads.

HPsquared 2y ago

Couple of comments on that chart: 1. It doesn't account for miles travelled 2. I see a downward trend since the 1970s with a bit of variation and a recent "lockdown peak". I'm just not seeing an increasing trend overall. There was certainly a notable increase from 2013 to 2016, but that's about all you could say. You'd need 2023-2024 data to see if the recent increase was due to lockdowns.

JBorrow 2y ago
At some level this is an almost uniquely American problem; see similar statistics here from Great Britain: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2022/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2022 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua..., Australia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i... which have been dropping rapidly since the 1970s. So, relative to other very similar countries, the U.S. is doing much worse.
- bfrog 2y ago
  These countries also presumably enforce stricter licensing laws, charge appropriately for driving urban tanks (American pick ups), and actually enforce some traffic laws with serious consequences not a slap on the wrist with inexpensive tickets.

davedx 2y ago

Distractions are often the safety systems themselves! Over the last 4 years, my Model 3 has progressively started beeping and chiming more and more at me, taking over my steering because it thinks I'm drifting out of my lane when I'm trying to actually change lanes, chimes because it thinks I'm going to run over a pedestrian or crash when there's actually a bend in the road - every year there is more of this and none of it works reliably. Other cars are similar but different. I dread what cars are slowly turning into. Yet most people are still myopically focused on the drawbacks of touchscreens instead of hardware knobs.

wlesieutre 2y ago
> taking over my steering because it thinks I'm drifting out of my lane when I'm trying to actually change lanes Isn’t this avoided by using your turn signal? That’s how Mazda’s works
- hunter2_ 2y ago
  That's how VW works as well, when the next lane is clear. But if you're on a collision course according to the blind spot monitoring system, a turn signal won't suppress anything and temporarily makes for what feels like extra-aggressive lane keep. This is great if you failed to notice the other vehicle, but it does maintain a bit more buffer than some practiced weavers would find necessary (like during a lane change that would be cutting someone off if not for sufficient acceleration to produce a reasonable gap albeit on the late side).
  - mmastrac 2y ago
    Are you admitting to weaving in and out of other traffic? That is insanely dangerous and I've been nearly hit by drivers like this repeatedly over the years. Maybe there's a good reason the safety system of the car is fighting you on this
    - hunter2_ 2y ago
      No. I've experienced this (insufficient gap for BSM to be satisfied) during collision avoidance maneuvers where a lane change of this nature was the better option than getting smashed, and based on that experience, I can realize that weavers would mistakenly think LKA is repeatedly interfering with lane changes (a bad thing) when it's actually BSM doing so (a good thing).

Workaccount2 2y ago

People just love trucks that are practically purpose built to kill pedestrians and motorcyclists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU Thank you Ryan from Fortnine.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
Gigantic trucks save the lives of people stuck on the kidney waitlist.
Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
There are people that love high trucks like that and simply do not care that it makes their truck more dangerous to others just for their own aesthetic preferences. It's simply not their problem. Some would even claim the added danger is a feature that incentivizes others to stay out of their way.

WinstonSmith84 2y ago

> But the bigger issue is distracted driving Certainly right, but staying focused while driving in countries with a lot of speed traps is impossible. You put your limiter, move at a snail pace and it's truly boring (for experienced drivers - not experienced drivers will be alert and stressed and that's maybe good). As an experienced driver, you either fall asleep or you just use your smartphone or whatever

verzali 2y ago
If you are seriously getting that bored when driving then I'm sorry, but you should not be on the road. You are a danger to everyone around you. It's incredible that you think you need to drive fast or you'll fall asleep.
AlexandrB 2y ago
Crazy stuff. Why is there an expectation that driving should be "not boring"? How do you think people handled this boredom before smartphones?
jcranmer 2y ago
If you are tempted to fall asleep or distract yourself while driving, you are not an experienced driver. Part of the experience one needs to gain as a driver is how to keep the necessary focus for driving, or at the very least, recognizing that maintaining that focus is impossible and therefore not driving. If driving the appropriate speed is difficult for you to do undistracted, then you need to find ways to improve your driving skills instead of blaming the law for saying that you're a bad driver.

diggan 2y ago

> This won't work. None of the "safety technology" we've added in the last decade has worked. Not that the individual subsystems don't work effectively on their own, but that the entire vehicle is becoming a less safe place. It looks like this is a US-specific issue, which isn't really highlighted in your comment. In other countries, it seems like the "motor vehicle fatality rate" has decreased for the last decade, some years more than others. The three other countries I checked were Australia, Japan and Iceland, as those had comparable pages on Wikipedia as the one you linked: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22Motor+vehicle+fatality+rate+in%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22Motor+vehicle...

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

You're making conclusions that are completely unsupported by your arguments. You say "none of the 'safety technology' we've added in the last decade has worked.", but then go on to lament the deaths caused by rising vehicle weights, and distracted driving, primarily on cell phones. But most of the safety tech introduced in the last 10 years (or at least that is much more prevalent in the last 10 years) are things like collision avoidance systems, mandatory backup cameras, lane change warnings, etc., that have nothing to do with weight nor distracted driving. Yes, I agree increasing vehicle weights and distracted driving are a huge problem. But then saying "Adding more tech won't solve this. Only removing and limiting its use will roll back this trend." is a completely unwarranted conclusion.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

MisterTea 2y ago

> There's two main contributing factors, weight and distraction. We cant ignore reckless drivers. Since COVID I noticed a large trend in people strait up not giving a damn about anyone and driving as fast and recklessly as they can. EVERY SINGLE DAY I see street racing on the highway in traffic, speeding, large SUV's bullying smaller cars, people chasing each other in either road rage incidents or racing, and yes swerving around as if they're the only one on the road while playing with phones - utterly insane behavior. I have to drive with eyes in the back of my head. Just last week a co-worker witnessed someone driving over 100 MPH on a highway with a 50/55 MPH limit while throwing trash out the sunroof and then trying to squeeze between two cars that were in his royal highness' way. They didn't fit, side swiped one of the cars, lost control and caused a severe accident he was almost involved in. The same week another coworker was forced off the highway by a big stupid jeep who he saw make eye contact with him but didn't care and forced him to swerve onto the grass shoulder. What the hell is going on in these peoples heads? Why is there so much selfish bravado? Why all the bullying? Why are we forced to be victims to these clowns? Why is no one doing anything about this?

Der_Einzige 2y ago
Were they a Nissan, dodge, or Chrysler driver? I’ve noticed drivers of these three brands are extra terrible, and the RAM 1500 has the highest (by far) DUI rate for any vehicle. If you drive any of those brands I will treat you like a maniac, and I’m usually right.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  In my neck of the woods the obnoxious car crowd is comprised of slammed shit boxes which are mainly BMW followed by Infinity with a smattering of Honda and Lexus. The rest are morons with Mustangs/Chargers/Camaros - all the same car really and my friend calls all of them a Charlstamaro. For the SUV crowd you have jacked up jeeps with "angry eye" body kits along with a mix of pickups from the major 3 and the asshats in Escalades. Any BMW is to be avoided.

Der_Einzige 2y ago

That chart doesn’t say what you think it says Fatalities per mile and injuries per mile are down, and the safety/security systems are strictly net benefits. Americans are driving more than in the past and in more vehicles. The real issue is that Americans do t give a shit anymore, are distracted as hell, and in general trust in society has declined. Low trust societies have insane road cultures, and the decaying state of the average driver is a reflection on the decaying state of Anerica trust in society.