4 ms·

Maybe. Maybe it would lead to other games being played though. For example, now that the right has the supreme court, it has claimed a lot of extra power over

Maybe. Maybe it would lead to other games being played though. For example, now that the right has the supreme court, it has claimed a lot of extra power over regulatory agencies, elections and even congress. This effectively makes a right wing body the final arbiter; and end run over attempts to get the system working honestly. I believe reform needs to be a lot more hands on to get things back on track.

infogulch 2y ago
Regulatory agencies have power which they were never granted, and the supreme court correctly found that if the executive branch is not granted power to do something (e.g. pass de-facto laws) they they cannot do that. This is a constitutional position, not a partisan position. If we want laws then we get congress to pass laws. This is how our system works. Congress' dysfunction is not an excuse to end-run around our system, it's a reason to fix congress.
- bookaway 2y ago
  Well, if one party or another thinks the way the current pieces are lying on the board are advantageous to them, I would think it's a reason for them not to fix Congress.
  - infogulch 2y ago
    Both parties are disincentivized to actually fix the problem because when unelected bureaucrats in the executive branch make all the rules then nobody is actually held accountable. Then senators and congressmen from both isles get to chain themselves to the fence and viscously bark at the other side with partisan vitrol to drum up support while getting nothing done.
- consteval 2y ago
  > This is a constitutional position, not a partisan position Every* previous court has disagreed. This is just your opinion. Chevron has been de-facto the way things are done since the early 1900s. You can disagree with Chevron, but you'd have to be both blind and deaf to think that's not a politically motivated position. At which point, I'm wondering how Hellen Keller got on hacker news. As a side-note: the constitution is, in fact, up to interpretation. The textualist's interpretation is just one. It is not more correct and, actually, is typically obviously obtuse. I mean, it's a position based on the action of playing dumb.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  The supreme court literally deferred such duties to regulatory agencies. Congress didn't intervene with bills. That's about as tacit power as you can get. >Congress' dysfunction is not an excuse to end-run around our system Sure it is. The whole point of the judicial system is to interpret laws and make rulings based on interpretations. If congress hates that, they need to stop slapfighting. Meanwhile, I believe executive orders have risen back to 40's/50's era orders (i.e. orders during World wars). Again, Judicial and Congressional can stop it but no one does half the time. >it's a reason to fix congress. I'm open to ideas.
justinclift 2y ago
> ... back on track. Out of curiosity, is there a point in time where things were clearly "on track"?
- SkyLemon 2y ago
  Based on my limited understanding of American politics, it depends on which side of the Mason–Dixon line you live on and when such a divided was relevant.
- disposition2 2y ago
  IMO, late 2009 / early 2010. The Citizen's United decision by SCOTUS, with a bit of a bump again by SCOTUS in 2013 when they basically nullified majority of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Congress is unarguably dysfunctional but (I believe) SCOTUS had a pretty large part in helping them get to where they are today...and in the difficulties involved with getting things back on track.
- advisedwang 2y ago
  No, good point! I probably should have said getting things the way most American hope government would work. Or perhaps the way I think government should work, if I'm really being honest.

infogulch 2y ago

Regulatory agencies have power which they were never granted, and the supreme court correctly found that if the executive branch is not granted power to do something (e.g. pass de-facto laws) they they cannot do that. This is a constitutional position, not a partisan position. If we want laws then we get congress to pass laws. This is how our system works. Congress' dysfunction is not an excuse to end-run around our system, it's a reason to fix congress.

bookaway 2y ago
Well, if one party or another thinks the way the current pieces are lying on the board are advantageous to them, I would think it's a reason for them not to fix Congress.
- infogulch 2y ago
  Both parties are disincentivized to actually fix the problem because when unelected bureaucrats in the executive branch make all the rules then nobody is actually held accountable. Then senators and congressmen from both isles get to chain themselves to the fence and viscously bark at the other side with partisan vitrol to drum up support while getting nothing done.
consteval 2y ago
> This is a constitutional position, not a partisan position Every* previous court has disagreed. This is just your opinion. Chevron has been de-facto the way things are done since the early 1900s. You can disagree with Chevron, but you'd have to be both blind and deaf to think that's not a politically motivated position. At which point, I'm wondering how Hellen Keller got on hacker news. As a side-note: the constitution is, in fact, up to interpretation. The textualist's interpretation is just one. It is not more correct and, actually, is typically obviously obtuse. I mean, it's a position based on the action of playing dumb.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
The supreme court literally deferred such duties to regulatory agencies. Congress didn't intervene with bills. That's about as tacit power as you can get. >Congress' dysfunction is not an excuse to end-run around our system Sure it is. The whole point of the judicial system is to interpret laws and make rulings based on interpretations. If congress hates that, they need to stop slapfighting. Meanwhile, I believe executive orders have risen back to 40's/50's era orders (i.e. orders during World wars). Again, Judicial and Congressional can stop it but no one does half the time. >it's a reason to fix congress. I'm open to ideas.

justinclift 2y ago

> ... back on track. Out of curiosity, is there a point in time where things were clearly "on track"?

SkyLemon 2y ago
Based on my limited understanding of American politics, it depends on which side of the Mason–Dixon line you live on and when such a divided was relevant.
disposition2 2y ago
IMO, late 2009 / early 2010. The Citizen's United decision by SCOTUS, with a bit of a bump again by SCOTUS in 2013 when they basically nullified majority of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Congress is unarguably dysfunctional but (I believe) SCOTUS had a pretty large part in helping them get to where they are today...and in the difficulties involved with getting things back on track.
advisedwang 2y ago
No, good point! I probably should have said getting things the way most American hope government would work. Or perhaps the way I think government should work, if I'm really being honest.