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I grew up in rural New Zealand, on a dairy farm. I agree that the needs of suburban and rural communities are very different from the needs of urban communities

I grew up in rural New Zealand, on a dairy farm. I agree that the needs of suburban and rural communities are very different from the needs of urban communities, but what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)#/media/File:1990-1997_Toyota_Hilux_(LN106R)_DX_4-door_utility_(2007-09-28).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)#/media/File:1990...

jjav 2y ago
> what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute Well depends what you need to do with, of course. A quick search suggests that this Toyota can tow 3300lb (if the trailer has its own brakes, or only 1650lb if not). So if you need to tow more than that, it won't work. 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb. Of course, what is silly is the people with trucks that are never used to tow or carry anything heavier than a bicycle!
- walleeee 2y ago
  The reality is that many people with a Ram are towing toys (boats, ATVs, etc) or, as you say, a travel trailer, not a work trailer. Which brings us to the question of need vs want. Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well.
  - jjav 2y ago
    > Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well. Try shopping for utility trailers. Anything affordable is very heavy steel & lumber. You can get light(er) trailers in aluminum but the price is much higher. I've never actually seen a contractor with one of those, too expensive. And of course there is all the materials & equipment they're towing on it for the job. How do you suggest any of that become lighter?
- sgu999 2y ago
  > Well depends what you need to do with, of course. given your example it's "want", not "need" > 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb Quick googling tells me that most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones, "very little" and "tiny" are really subjective
  - jjav 2y ago
    > given your example it's "want", not "need" Yes, how is this relevant? "Wants" are what drive humanity forward, not mere subsistence. > Quick googling tells me that most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones Can you post a few links? Tried to find the most popular travel trailer models in Europe but not finding a good list. Unless you're building the whole thing from carbon fiber, anything spacious is necessarily going to have some weight.
    - sgu999 2y ago
      > anything spacious is Ha, so it's spacious, not tiny and very little anymore... Here's what seems to be the biggest one of that random brand well ranked on Google, 1330kg: https://www.caravelair-caravans.com/models/exclusive-line-586/ https://www.caravelair-caravans.com/models/exclusive-line-58...
      - jjav 2y ago
        > Ha, so it's spacious, not tiny and very little anymore... Playing gotcha word games is not the HN ethos. To clarify, you brought up spacious travel trailers: > most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones In contrast, the one I own is very small at 19ft, as mentioned upthread.
forgetfreeman 2y ago
Let me help you with that. They don't. If 1 in 50 1500 owners ever hook the thing up to anything heavier than a utility trailer (these can cheerfully be towed by a VW golf) I'll kiss your ass. They're also bullshit for hauling materials since a big chunk of the cargo space got eaten by the now pervasive luxury full sized back seat. The following is an abridged list of tells that a truck owner would be better off with a station wagon: - the wheel wells are clean - it's got a tonneau cover on - no hitch receiver, it's empty, or there's no rust on the ball - aftermarket anything (lights, step bumpers, lift kit, etc - no dents, major scratches, or foreign materials on the bed or tailgate Full disclosure: I have a Dodge 1500 in the driveway right now. In my defense the used truck market is fucking insane, I got this basically new for 60% of what a thoroughly used mid-sized truck would have cost me, and I actually do construction and timber work so the thing gets worked.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  The best of all, the bed of their truck is spotless with no scratches meaning at most those trucks just carry grocery bags.
- micahdeath 2y ago
  I half fit in this. Mine is also used to haul a bed full of gravel when my drive needs repair or dirt for lawn correction. Not to mention I have a family. Rear facing child seats while being 6 feet tall. Most cars I've tested don't support this. (Prius) Or no children can sit behind me because my front seat is sitting so close to the back seat that legs don't fit between. (Camero/Mustang) Camry and Pasat seem to work, but warranties wouldn't cover things like bad child safety locks.... Not to mention, you can't haul things like gravel. =/
  - beAbU 2y ago
    How frequently does your driveway need new gravel that you are justifying a vehicle for that purpose? Do you transport gravel more frequently for your driveway than your children? You go from full truck down to flat cars, completely ignoring the vehicles in between like soft-roader SUVS or the venerable minivan. Does none of these vehicles meet your people carrying needs?

jjav 2y ago

> what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute Well depends what you need to do with, of course. A quick search suggests that this Toyota can tow 3300lb (if the trailer has its own brakes, or only 1650lb if not). So if you need to tow more than that, it won't work. 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb. Of course, what is silly is the people with trucks that are never used to tow or carry anything heavier than a bicycle!

walleeee 2y ago
The reality is that many people with a Ram are towing toys (boats, ATVs, etc) or, as you say, a travel trailer, not a work trailer. Which brings us to the question of need vs want. Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well.
- jjav 2y ago
  > Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well. Try shopping for utility trailers. Anything affordable is very heavy steel & lumber. You can get light(er) trailers in aluminum but the price is much higher. I've never actually seen a contractor with one of those, too expensive. And of course there is all the materials & equipment they're towing on it for the job. How do you suggest any of that become lighter?
sgu999 2y ago
> Well depends what you need to do with, of course. given your example it's "want", not "need" > 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb Quick googling tells me that most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones, "very little" and "tiny" are really subjective
- jjav 2y ago
  > given your example it's "want", not "need" Yes, how is this relevant? "Wants" are what drive humanity forward, not mere subsistence. > Quick googling tells me that most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones Can you post a few links? Tried to find the most popular travel trailer models in Europe but not finding a good list. Unless you're building the whole thing from carbon fiber, anything spacious is necessarily going to have some weight.
  - sgu999 2y ago
    > anything spacious is Ha, so it's spacious, not tiny and very little anymore... Here's what seems to be the biggest one of that random brand well ranked on Google, 1330kg: https://www.caravelair-caravans.com/models/exclusive-line-586/ https://www.caravelair-caravans.com/models/exclusive-line-58...
    - jjav 2y ago
      > Ha, so it's spacious, not tiny and very little anymore... Playing gotcha word games is not the HN ethos. To clarify, you brought up spacious travel trailers: > most European caravans are sub 1500kg / 3300lb, even the more spacious ones In contrast, the one I own is very small at 19ft, as mentioned upthread.

forgetfreeman 2y ago

Let me help you with that. They don't. If 1 in 50 1500 owners ever hook the thing up to anything heavier than a utility trailer (these can cheerfully be towed by a VW golf) I'll kiss your ass. They're also bullshit for hauling materials since a big chunk of the cargo space got eaten by the now pervasive luxury full sized back seat. The following is an abridged list of tells that a truck owner would be better off with a station wagon: - the wheel wells are clean - it's got a tonneau cover on - no hitch receiver, it's empty, or there's no rust on the ball - aftermarket anything (lights, step bumpers, lift kit, etc - no dents, major scratches, or foreign materials on the bed or tailgate Full disclosure: I have a Dodge 1500 in the driveway right now. In my defense the used truck market is fucking insane, I got this basically new for 60% of what a thoroughly used mid-sized truck would have cost me, and I actually do construction and timber work so the thing gets worked.

Rinzler89 2y ago
The best of all, the bed of their truck is spotless with no scratches meaning at most those trucks just carry grocery bags.
micahdeath 2y ago
I half fit in this. Mine is also used to haul a bed full of gravel when my drive needs repair or dirt for lawn correction. Not to mention I have a family. Rear facing child seats while being 6 feet tall. Most cars I've tested don't support this. (Prius) Or no children can sit behind me because my front seat is sitting so close to the back seat that legs don't fit between. (Camero/Mustang) Camry and Pasat seem to work, but warranties wouldn't cover things like bad child safety locks.... Not to mention, you can't haul things like gravel. =/
- beAbU 2y ago
  How frequently does your driveway need new gravel that you are justifying a vehicle for that purpose? Do you transport gravel more frequently for your driveway than your children? You go from full truck down to flat cars, completely ignoring the vehicles in between like soft-roader SUVS or the venerable minivan. Does none of these vehicles meet your people carrying needs?