4 ms·

The US being huge has no bearing on the requirement that I have to own a car to get to work every day, or to go to the grocery store, or to take kids to school.

The US being huge has no bearing on the requirement that I have to own a car to get to work every day, or to go to the grocery store, or to take kids to school. I live in a more suburban area than I used to and having to pilot a huge deadly vehicle everywhere is vastly more stressful than just walking to handle my groceries. Note that the study you link to there is from 1994 and only controlled for the following criteria: sex, age, social class, marital status, unemployment, chronic illness and region of residence. Those aren't the things that put folks on edge about cities in 1994 or in the preceding years. 30 years on from 1994 and now in a different world, many of us are wondering why we're locked out of some of the benefits of a bit more density. No ones saying we abandon all beyond our city walls to nature, instead they'll be farmland or productive rural activities like we already use them for. But we don't need every city of 500k people to mean that there's a 15 mile radius circle of strip malls in every direction.

anonym29 2y ago
>having to pilot a huge deadly vehicle everywhere is vastly more stressful than just walking to handle my groceries. That's a nice luxury to have. I take it you're fortunate enough to live in a very temperate area with palatable weather year-round, rather than somewhere that gets 110° F in the summer, or ice storms in the winter? Not everyone can afford to live on the beautiful, comfortable, and exorbitantly expensive cities along the west coast.
- felipellrocha 2y ago
  Have people not lived in those places in the past?
  - anonym29 2y ago
    They have, but if you mean before the introduction of the automobile, it was in an era where nobody had to commute to get groceries because a majority of the population were subsistence farmers.
    - p_j_w 2y ago
      Do you know nothing about the history of the east coast? Do you ACTUALLY think everyone who lived there before 1900 was a subsistence farmer?
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    We have the choice of affordable, door-to-door air conditioning now, so why should we do without if we don’t have to?
- jcranmer 2y ago
  > I take it you're fortunate enough to live in a very temperate area with palatable weather year-round, rather than somewhere that gets 110° F in the summer, or ice storms in the winter? Okay, we don't get the 110°F in the summer here (only up to the 90's), but we do get the ice storms in the winter. I still walk to get my groceries if I can, even if it's actively snowing. I just wish they'd plow the sidewalks here, I don't like having to choose between walking in the street or trying to walk on uncompacted snow in my boots while laden with groceries.
  - pc86 2y ago
    Every place I've ever lived has required property owners to clear and salt their sidewalks within 24 hours of the snow stopping, and any place that actually gets regular, measurable snowfall (northeast, northern midwest) is pretty good about citing those that don't.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Most Americans vote with their wallets and feet. They don't want dense apartment living and the majority run from it as soon as they can afford it. It is usually possible to rent small apartments near work in most metro areas, but instead they prefer 3000sqft places to 600sqft and supermarkets to corner stores. There is a huge amount that would have to change about the American dream and esthetic desires to enable car free European living.
- cozzyd 2y ago
  Yes, this is why San Francisco, Boston and NYC have the cheapest rents in the US.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Sure, there's more demand than there is supply at the moment for sense urban areas. But in the end, most Americans don't choose to live in denser areas even if it's more affordable than NYC and SF. I do agree we should build more density, but there is also still a large amount of convincing people to actually allow it and move there. It's not like these zoning laws just appeared on their own one day. People vote for these things. People show up to city halls and fight densification. People fight against transit, they don't want those people coming in to their nice quiet neighborhoods and the undesirables in their apartments.
  - onecommentman 2y ago
    No, it is why 60% of Americans live in single family detached homes, not including the additional 10% who live in manufactured homes or single family attached. Not factoring in latent demand, or those who are in high-density living for reasons beyond their control, e.g. assisted living, college dorms, military, that should be excluded from the calculations. San Francisco 2024 growth rate is minus 2.4 percent. NYC 2024 growth rate minus 2.0. Boston minus 1.0 percent. High rent is more likely the result of NYC, SF and Boston renters being on the bleeding edge of rent setting software. Lucky them.
    - pc86 2y ago
oremolten 2y ago
You're not required anything. Nothing is stopping you from walking or riding a bike. You're making a choice of convenience. You're over privileged life has made you believe you need this "deadly vehicle". Go with out? like the 5billion other people that are, or continue to wine about your luxuries and not being able to get groceries 2 minutes faster. How about this, instead of designing your consumer luxury life around needing to go to a store or restaurant 2-3 times a day... instead maybe shape your habits around not being a mindless consumer. wahhh it really is awful I have to drive for 30 minutes 1x a month to get groceries.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  Why did we build society at all if we should be always satisfied with the status quo standard of living

anonym29 2y ago

>having to pilot a huge deadly vehicle everywhere is vastly more stressful than just walking to handle my groceries. That's a nice luxury to have. I take it you're fortunate enough to live in a very temperate area with palatable weather year-round, rather than somewhere that gets 110° F in the summer, or ice storms in the winter? Not everyone can afford to live on the beautiful, comfortable, and exorbitantly expensive cities along the west coast.

felipellrocha 2y ago
Have people not lived in those places in the past?
- anonym29 2y ago
  They have, but if you mean before the introduction of the automobile, it was in an era where nobody had to commute to get groceries because a majority of the population were subsistence farmers.
  - p_j_w 2y ago
    Do you know nothing about the history of the east coast? Do you ACTUALLY think everyone who lived there before 1900 was a subsistence farmer?
- rangestransform 2y ago
  We have the choice of affordable, door-to-door air conditioning now, so why should we do without if we don’t have to?
jcranmer 2y ago
> I take it you're fortunate enough to live in a very temperate area with palatable weather year-round, rather than somewhere that gets 110° F in the summer, or ice storms in the winter? Okay, we don't get the 110°F in the summer here (only up to the 90's), but we do get the ice storms in the winter. I still walk to get my groceries if I can, even if it's actively snowing. I just wish they'd plow the sidewalks here, I don't like having to choose between walking in the street or trying to walk on uncompacted snow in my boots while laden with groceries.
- pc86 2y ago
  Every place I've ever lived has required property owners to clear and salt their sidewalks within 24 hours of the snow stopping, and any place that actually gets regular, measurable snowfall (northeast, northern midwest) is pretty good about citing those that don't.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

Most Americans vote with their wallets and feet. They don't want dense apartment living and the majority run from it as soon as they can afford it. It is usually possible to rent small apartments near work in most metro areas, but instead they prefer 3000sqft places to 600sqft and supermarkets to corner stores. There is a huge amount that would have to change about the American dream and esthetic desires to enable car free European living.

cozzyd 2y ago
Yes, this is why San Francisco, Boston and NYC have the cheapest rents in the US.
- vel0city 2y ago
  Sure, there's more demand than there is supply at the moment for sense urban areas. But in the end, most Americans don't choose to live in denser areas even if it's more affordable than NYC and SF. I do agree we should build more density, but there is also still a large amount of convincing people to actually allow it and move there. It's not like these zoning laws just appeared on their own one day. People vote for these things. People show up to city halls and fight densification. People fight against transit, they don't want those people coming in to their nice quiet neighborhoods and the undesirables in their apartments.
- onecommentman 2y ago
  No, it is why 60% of Americans live in single family detached homes, not including the additional 10% who live in manufactured homes or single family attached. Not factoring in latent demand, or those who are in high-density living for reasons beyond their control, e.g. assisted living, college dorms, military, that should be excluded from the calculations. San Francisco 2024 growth rate is minus 2.4 percent. NYC 2024 growth rate minus 2.0. Boston minus 1.0 percent. High rent is more likely the result of NYC, SF and Boston renters being on the bleeding edge of rent setting software. Lucky them.
  - pc86 2y ago

oremolten 2y ago

You're not required anything. Nothing is stopping you from walking or riding a bike. You're making a choice of convenience. You're over privileged life has made you believe you need this "deadly vehicle". Go with out? like the 5billion other people that are, or continue to wine about your luxuries and not being able to get groceries 2 minutes faster. How about this, instead of designing your consumer luxury life around needing to go to a store or restaurant 2-3 times a day... instead maybe shape your habits around not being a mindless consumer. wahhh it really is awful I have to drive for 30 minutes 1x a month to get groceries.

rangestransform 2y ago
Why did we build society at all if we should be always satisfied with the status quo standard of living