7 ms·

Some random bits of context. This conflict goes back a long time. In the early 1990's, with online journals just getting started, MIT was able to insist on pri

Some random bits of context. This conflict goes back a long time. In the early 1990's, with online journals just getting started, MIT was able to insist on principles like "anyone physically in the library has full access, even if they are not otherwise affiliated with MIT". A couple of years later, power shifted, and Elsevier could "our terms, take it or leave it". Then three decades, a human generation, of Elsevier rent-seeking, and so many people working towards Open Access, unbundling, google scholar, arXiv, sci-hub, and so on. Societal change can be so very slow, nonmonotonic, and profoundly discouraging. And yet here we are, making progress. For anyone unfamiliar with "author [...] required to relinquish copyright [...] generous reuse rights", journals would require authors to completely sign over copyright, so authors' subsequent other-than-fair-use usage of fragments would be a copyright violation. Rarely enforced, but legally you'd have to obtain permission. While some institutions sign contracts easily, and struggle with the fallout later, MIT legal culture has been pain-up-front careful with contracts. Which is sometimes painful. But IIRC, we're today using X Windows instead of CMU's Andrew, because MIT could say "sure!" while CMU was "sure, err,... we'll get back to you... some mess to clean up first".

hbbio 2y ago
> we're today using X Windows instead of CMU's Andrew And in that world, TypeScript would have to find another name! Now, good luck googling Andrew Typescript :) Edit: Found it... https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/fig4.gif https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/fig4.gif
- Something1234 2y ago
  I'm going to need more history here on exactly what you linked this is insanely interesting. Alternate windows things in unix land are always interesting
  - andyjohnson0 2y ago
    Undoubtedly a reference to CMU's Andrew project [1], which was an experimental distributed computing environment from the 1980s - with an emphasis on providing infrastructure for pedagogy. Ideas developed by Andrew and Project Athena [2] can still be seen in contemporary software today: window managers, distributed file systems and authentication, compouns documents , etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Project [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena
    - bosco_mcnasty 2y ago
      of note AndrewFS (think cousin of NFS).. with features pertaining to systems being "offline" and "online" alternately, but still accessing the same global file / directory namespace, still reading and writing, so some type of git or cvs style merging also exists in that filesystem
- aargh_aargh 2y ago
  Image referenced here: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/welcome.html https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/welcome.html Quote: typescript (see Figure 4 (Sample Typescript Window)) provides an alternative to xterm. You enter commands to your shell in the input window and the results are shown in the same window where they can be scrolled, searched or saved. Typescript does not support curses like xterm does, so you cannot run vi or bash in a typescript, for example. However, you can use the tcsh or pdksh (ksh) shells. Typescript has several other features that I find very useful. The README for the word processing package describes how you can cause the current working directory to be kept in the title of the typescript window. Typescript is "smart" about these paths, too. Notice in Figure 4. that the path shown in the title of the window is "~", my home directory, and not a fully qualified path. Typescript supports use of several PC keys to make it easier to enter commands. The Cursor-Left and Cursor-Right keys can be used to edit the command I am entering (regardless if my shell supports this). The Home and End keys will move the cursor to the beginning or end of the line (or selected area). The cursor keys are also mapped to allow me to move up and down the the command history. Cursor-Up gets the previous command entered, Cursor-Down the one after. In my opinion an even more useful feature is command completion. If I type "ls" and then press Cursor-Up, I get the previous command that began with "ls". File completion is supported with the tab key. If I enter "ls src/tp" and then press the tab key, typescript will complete the path "src/tp" to "src/tpg-config" (in my case). It makes entering paths to files ten times easier. I love it! If I enter a command like "ls /etc", the window will likely fill and scroll automatically. If I want to see the beginning of the scrolled data, I must use the mouse (or Page-Up/Down keys) to scroll. However, if I enter "ls /etc control-J" (where I enter the command with a control-J keystroke, rather than the normal Enter), the command is executed, but the output is pushed to the top of the current window so I do not need to scroll. Typescript also allows me to create my own menus in the file ~/.shmenu. In Figure 4, you can see I have a menu card Internet on the menubar. This is from my own .shmenu file which looks like this: ...
- rickydroll 2y ago
  We could have NeWs, but we got X11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS
echelon 2y ago
> "our terms, take it or leave it". So many monopolies do this and they should all be disrupted. This is our world, and anyone telling us they get to gatekeep information exchange is not an ally. Google with Chrome, Apple with iPhone. > Societal change can be so very slow, nonmonotonic, and profoundly discouraging. And yet here we are, making progress. Encouraging, but we lost Aaron.
- rmholt 2y ago
  Disrupted implies by a new competitor which I'm not sure is always possible. We need strong anti-monopoly laws and strong enforcement of them.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  > This is our world, and anyone telling us they get to gatekeep information exchange is not an ally Sorry, but this is a worldview that universally leads to nastiness. It's everyone's world, and just as I don't have the right to sleep in your bed (even though it's "our" world and who are you to stop "us"?) we have to have a non-low resolution and non-tribal view of situations. There is a way to think about this that clears that very low bar, and so this level of discourse is not necessary.
  - neves 2y ago
    It's really interesting when people doesn't notice that the view of "copyright=pepper" is pure ideology.
    - tivert 2y ago
      > ...view of "copyright=pepper" is pure... Huh?
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    Your example would more apt by saying "I don't have the right to sleep in a perfect copy of your bed". You're not literally preventing others (in this case, him) from accessing resources (the bed)
joshu 2y ago
I don’t think Andrew had its own display system. At least by the early 90s, ATK ran on top of X.
- mncharity 2y ago
  This would have been a bit earlier, mid-or-late-80s, assuming I'm remembering it correctly.

hbbio 2y ago

> we're today using X Windows instead of CMU's Andrew And in that world, TypeScript would have to find another name! Now, good luck googling Andrew Typescript :) Edit: Found it... https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/fig4.gif https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/fig4.gif

Something1234 2y ago
I'm going to need more history here on exactly what you linked this is insanely interesting. Alternate windows things in unix land are always interesting
- andyjohnson0 2y ago
  Undoubtedly a reference to CMU's Andrew project [1], which was an experimental distributed computing environment from the 1980s - with an emphasis on providing infrastructure for pedagogy. Ideas developed by Andrew and Project Athena [2] can still be seen in contemporary software today: window managers, distributed file systems and authentication, compouns documents , etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Project [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena
  - bosco_mcnasty 2y ago
    of note AndrewFS (think cousin of NFS).. with features pertaining to systems being "offline" and "online" alternately, but still accessing the same global file / directory namespace, still reading and writing, so some type of git or cvs style merging also exists in that filesystem
aargh_aargh 2y ago
Image referenced here: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/welcome.html https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~AUIS/ljdocs/mkmost/welcome.html Quote: typescript (see Figure 4 (Sample Typescript Window)) provides an alternative to xterm. You enter commands to your shell in the input window and the results are shown in the same window where they can be scrolled, searched or saved. Typescript does not support curses like xterm does, so you cannot run vi or bash in a typescript, for example. However, you can use the tcsh or pdksh (ksh) shells. Typescript has several other features that I find very useful. The README for the word processing package describes how you can cause the current working directory to be kept in the title of the typescript window. Typescript is "smart" about these paths, too. Notice in Figure 4. that the path shown in the title of the window is "~", my home directory, and not a fully qualified path. Typescript supports use of several PC keys to make it easier to enter commands. The Cursor-Left and Cursor-Right keys can be used to edit the command I am entering (regardless if my shell supports this). The Home and End keys will move the cursor to the beginning or end of the line (or selected area). The cursor keys are also mapped to allow me to move up and down the the command history. Cursor-Up gets the previous command entered, Cursor-Down the one after. In my opinion an even more useful feature is command completion. If I type "ls" and then press Cursor-Up, I get the previous command that began with "ls". File completion is supported with the tab key. If I enter "ls src/tp" and then press the tab key, typescript will complete the path "src/tp" to "src/tpg-config" (in my case). It makes entering paths to files ten times easier. I love it! If I enter a command like "ls /etc", the window will likely fill and scroll automatically. If I want to see the beginning of the scrolled data, I must use the mouse (or Page-Up/Down keys) to scroll. However, if I enter "ls /etc control-J" (where I enter the command with a control-J keystroke, rather than the normal Enter), the command is executed, but the output is pushed to the top of the current window so I do not need to scroll. Typescript also allows me to create my own menus in the file ~/.shmenu. In Figure 4, you can see I have a menu card Internet on the menubar. This is from my own .shmenu file which looks like this: ...
rickydroll 2y ago
We could have NeWs, but we got X11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS

echelon 2y ago

> "our terms, take it or leave it". So many monopolies do this and they should all be disrupted. This is our world, and anyone telling us they get to gatekeep information exchange is not an ally. Google with Chrome, Apple with iPhone. > Societal change can be so very slow, nonmonotonic, and profoundly discouraging. And yet here we are, making progress. Encouraging, but we lost Aaron.

rmholt 2y ago
Disrupted implies by a new competitor which I'm not sure is always possible. We need strong anti-monopoly laws and strong enforcement of them.
robertlagrant 2y ago
> This is our world, and anyone telling us they get to gatekeep information exchange is not an ally Sorry, but this is a worldview that universally leads to nastiness. It's everyone's world, and just as I don't have the right to sleep in your bed (even though it's "our" world and who are you to stop "us"?) we have to have a non-low resolution and non-tribal view of situations. There is a way to think about this that clears that very low bar, and so this level of discourse is not necessary.
- neves 2y ago
  It's really interesting when people doesn't notice that the view of "copyright=pepper" is pure ideology.
  - tivert 2y ago
    > ...view of "copyright=pepper" is pure... Huh?
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  Your example would more apt by saying "I don't have the right to sleep in a perfect copy of your bed". You're not literally preventing others (in this case, him) from accessing resources (the bed)

joshu 2y ago

I don’t think Andrew had its own display system. At least by the early 90s, ATK ran on top of X.

mncharity 2y ago
This would have been a bit earlier, mid-or-late-80s, assuming I'm remembering it correctly.