5 ms·

Judge orders removal of 1,000ft rotting ocean liner from Philadelphia pier

40 points by howard941 2y ago

NewJazz 2y ago
The dispute over the huge ship has been in and out of court – a magnified version of what to do with possessions that have no useful purpose but are held on to for reasons that cannot be articulated or clearly remembered. Article author has some thoughts and opinions on the matter, huh?
- unquietwiki 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_United_States I think the "Well There's Your Problem" podcast mentioned this ship in a recent episode. Fastest ship for its day; I thought it was nuclear-powered, but apparently not?
  - throwanem 2y ago
    You're thinking of NS Savannah.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- syntheticnature 2y ago
  I wasn't sure if it was thoughts or opinions, or an attempt to make this feel more personally relevant to readers. It did, in any case, jump out at me when I read it.
riffic 2y ago
any reason why south philadelphians call it the "IKEA boat"? That doesn't seem to be explained in the text.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- skyfaller 2y ago
  It has been parked right next to an IKEA for a while, where it is prominently visible from the IKEA cafeteria windows, as well as the parking lot.
- galdosdi 2y ago
  The IKEA cafeteria in South Philly is the best place to see a really good view of the SS United States, because of the proximity, the angle, and the cafeteria's gorgeous floor to ceiling glass windows. It's a really unique place to eat because of this strange and wonderful view, yet it's not some sort of expensive rooftop bar, it's just the cheap cafeteria of a mass market chain furniture store. It's one of those weird little gems that give you a country-club-of-the-proletariat feeling, like the Randall's Island golf driving range or the Roosevelt Island tram in Manhattan. There's just something really nice about something that's really grand and really free, that makes you feel like it's cool and respectable to be an ordinary schmuck. I'm going over there this weekend and enjoying some meatballs and coffee and maybe picking up yet another BILLY bookcase.
burkaman 2y ago
> the nation’s flagship > one of its most iconic symbols Kind of wild spin from the owners, it's just a cruise ship. It can't be an "iconic symbol" if essentially nobody in the country has ever heard of it.
- Animats 2y ago
  It wasn't a cruise ship. It was a fast ocean liner. An obsolete concept. Business class, US to UK, at high speed. Only 3.5 days! The SS United States was famous, but a long time ago. Back when Elvis and the Beatles mattered.
  - burkaman 2y ago
    I know it's different, just trying to find the closest modern comparison. You bring up Elvis and the Beatles, but they still matter to quite a few people. This ship does not, and that doesn't mean it's worthless, but it does mean that it's not a national icon that the president should step in to save.
    - bydo 2y ago
      It does mean something to a lot of people. It was a monument to American engineering. Once it launched, it immediately won the Blue Riband for the fastest crossing of the Atlantic in a passenger ship, a record no US ship had held for a century. That record still stands 70+ years later. It's just a really cool ship? It's a shame that it's been neglected for so long and will now almost certainly be destroyed.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    The point stands though. Warships that served the nation and have actual name recognition have trouble raising funds to stay afloat as museums. Keeping some unheard of commercial vessel afloat as a floating ballroom or whatever seems totally unrealistic. Incidentally, if you're ever in Philly, check out the USS Olympia. There aren't many ships from that era (late 19th) still around. Really cool ship.
AirMax98 2y ago
Love to look at this boat when I’m down there, but it’s good to see something happen. Wayyyyy too much abandoned shit in Philly that remains abandoned because of owners/proprietors that are just frankly irresponsible to others. A large lot on Broad & Washington (intersection of two busiest thoroughfares in South Philly) was similarly abandoned for 25 years due to a mixture of headstrong, incompetent owners and government gridlock, which was a weird safety hazard. It has since been developed, but I say use or lose it.
- guywithahat 2y ago
  I mean government gridlock is a pretty legitimate reason for something to sit abandoned. I don’t know anything about that lot, but if a developer wants to build something and the city won’t let them build what they want, then by necessity, you just have to wait it out.
  - AirMax98 2y ago
    I don't disagree — but it takes two to tango!
Animats 2y ago
That's sad. For decades now, there have been restoration proposals for the S.S. United States. But none went anywhere. It was a great ship, the fastest ocean liner ever. 3 days, 10 hours and 40 minutes from New York to Southampton. But once aircraft could make the trip, that speed wasn't a good selling point. The S.S. United States was built to military standards, with some government funding so it could be used as a troop ship. So it had more internal watertight compartments than most ships and the watertight bulkheads went to 40 feet above the water line. Thus, few big, open spaces. Four engine rooms, for redundancy in case of attack. Way too much power. It was for people who needed to cross the Atlantic in a hurry. Today's cruise ships are barges with giant open spaces. Relaxing on deck at 44 MPH doesn't really work. Conversion to a cruise ship was considered, but never went anywhere.
- pinewurst 2y ago
  It has the propulsion system of a Midway-class aircraft carrier.
gwbas1c 2y ago
I sometimes worry that, as a country, we hoard historical artifacts. We can't live in the past. Maybe the best thing to do is to take what monies are available, cut a part out, and put it somewhere its wanted. Otherwise, just accept that holding on to this ship is hoarding, and we need to dispose of it.
someonehere 2y ago
I feel like this is hoarding on a different level. “Someday I’ll need it.”
BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 2y ago
At risk of showing my age I remember the magazine and newspaper articles on SS America when it came out. The 35 or so knot wind over the deck discouraged passengers from sauntering about the exterior spaces. One article highlighted that the only piece of wood was the butcher block. Everything else was metal. Given the military purpose, fireproofing was a priority. The piston airliners at the time had limited capacity and range. Often trans Atlantic flights were stuck at Gander until the weather cleared up. Before satellites, weather ships were stationed at intervals across the oceans. There was one controlled ditching of a PanAm Stratocruiser (aka Boeing trimotor) next to a weather ship. The ones I were in made it all the way across without incident, but my father would not let us sit next to the propellers. On one cockpit visit we saw the navigator take a sun shot with a sextant through the astrodome. All of which explains why many at the time choose liners.
- bkev 2y ago
  fireproofing was a priority (Note: the SS America and SS United States shared the same designer - William Francis Gibbs). Not sure about the SS America, but at least on the SS United States, what wasn’t metal was heavily asbestos - which is the primary reason they had to completely strip the interior fittings on it. It’s mostly an empty shell now. That lack of interior decoration could be considered a significant reason it won’t likely be adapted/reused, which is a shame; it’s a beautiful ship.
- cafard 2y ago
  The French line Normandie burned at its moorings in New York harbor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Normandie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Normandie

40 points by howard941 2y ago

The dispute over the huge ship has been in and out of court – a magnified version of what to do with possessions that have no useful purpose but are held on to for reasons that cannot be articulated or clearly remembered. Article author has some thoughts and opinions on the matter, huh?

unquietwiki 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_United_States I think the "Well There's Your Problem" podcast mentioned this ship in a recent episode. Fastest ship for its day; I thought it was nuclear-powered, but apparently not?
- throwanem 2y ago
  You're thinking of NS Savannah.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
syntheticnature 2y ago
I wasn't sure if it was thoughts or opinions, or an attempt to make this feel more personally relevant to readers. It did, in any case, jump out at me when I read it.

riffic 2y ago

any reason why south philadelphians call it the "IKEA boat"? That doesn't seem to be explained in the text.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
skyfaller 2y ago
It has been parked right next to an IKEA for a while, where it is prominently visible from the IKEA cafeteria windows, as well as the parking lot.
galdosdi 2y ago
The IKEA cafeteria in South Philly is the best place to see a really good view of the SS United States, because of the proximity, the angle, and the cafeteria's gorgeous floor to ceiling glass windows. It's a really unique place to eat because of this strange and wonderful view, yet it's not some sort of expensive rooftop bar, it's just the cheap cafeteria of a mass market chain furniture store. It's one of those weird little gems that give you a country-club-of-the-proletariat feeling, like the Randall's Island golf driving range or the Roosevelt Island tram in Manhattan. There's just something really nice about something that's really grand and really free, that makes you feel like it's cool and respectable to be an ordinary schmuck. I'm going over there this weekend and enjoying some meatballs and coffee and maybe picking up yet another BILLY bookcase.

burkaman 2y ago

> the nation’s flagship > one of its most iconic symbols Kind of wild spin from the owners, it's just a cruise ship. It can't be an "iconic symbol" if essentially nobody in the country has ever heard of it.

Animats 2y ago
It wasn't a cruise ship. It was a fast ocean liner. An obsolete concept. Business class, US to UK, at high speed. Only 3.5 days! The SS United States was famous, but a long time ago. Back when Elvis and the Beatles mattered.
- burkaman 2y ago
  I know it's different, just trying to find the closest modern comparison. You bring up Elvis and the Beatles, but they still matter to quite a few people. This ship does not, and that doesn't mean it's worthless, but it does mean that it's not a national icon that the president should step in to save.
  - bydo 2y ago
    It does mean something to a lot of people. It was a monument to American engineering. Once it launched, it immediately won the Blue Riband for the fastest crossing of the Atlantic in a passenger ship, a record no US ship had held for a century. That record still stands 70+ years later. It's just a really cool ship? It's a shame that it's been neglected for so long and will now almost certainly be destroyed.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  The point stands though. Warships that served the nation and have actual name recognition have trouble raising funds to stay afloat as museums. Keeping some unheard of commercial vessel afloat as a floating ballroom or whatever seems totally unrealistic. Incidentally, if you're ever in Philly, check out the USS Olympia. There aren't many ships from that era (late 19th) still around. Really cool ship.

AirMax98 2y ago

Love to look at this boat when I’m down there, but it’s good to see something happen. Wayyyyy too much abandoned shit in Philly that remains abandoned because of owners/proprietors that are just frankly irresponsible to others. A large lot on Broad & Washington (intersection of two busiest thoroughfares in South Philly) was similarly abandoned for 25 years due to a mixture of headstrong, incompetent owners and government gridlock, which was a weird safety hazard. It has since been developed, but I say use or lose it.

guywithahat 2y ago
I mean government gridlock is a pretty legitimate reason for something to sit abandoned. I don’t know anything about that lot, but if a developer wants to build something and the city won’t let them build what they want, then by necessity, you just have to wait it out.
- AirMax98 2y ago
  I don't disagree — but it takes two to tango!

Animats 2y ago

That's sad. For decades now, there have been restoration proposals for the S.S. United States. But none went anywhere. It was a great ship, the fastest ocean liner ever. 3 days, 10 hours and 40 minutes from New York to Southampton. But once aircraft could make the trip, that speed wasn't a good selling point. The S.S. United States was built to military standards, with some government funding so it could be used as a troop ship. So it had more internal watertight compartments than most ships and the watertight bulkheads went to 40 feet above the water line. Thus, few big, open spaces. Four engine rooms, for redundancy in case of attack. Way too much power. It was for people who needed to cross the Atlantic in a hurry. Today's cruise ships are barges with giant open spaces. Relaxing on deck at 44 MPH doesn't really work. Conversion to a cruise ship was considered, but never went anywhere.

pinewurst 2y ago
It has the propulsion system of a Midway-class aircraft carrier.

gwbas1c 2y ago

I sometimes worry that, as a country, we hoard historical artifacts. We can't live in the past. Maybe the best thing to do is to take what monies are available, cut a part out, and put it somewhere its wanted. Otherwise, just accept that holding on to this ship is hoarding, and we need to dispose of it.

someonehere 2y ago

I feel like this is hoarding on a different level. “Someday I’ll need it.”

BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 2y ago

At risk of showing my age I remember the magazine and newspaper articles on SS America when it came out. The 35 or so knot wind over the deck discouraged passengers from sauntering about the exterior spaces. One article highlighted that the only piece of wood was the butcher block. Everything else was metal. Given the military purpose, fireproofing was a priority. The piston airliners at the time had limited capacity and range. Often trans Atlantic flights were stuck at Gander until the weather cleared up. Before satellites, weather ships were stationed at intervals across the oceans. There was one controlled ditching of a PanAm Stratocruiser (aka Boeing trimotor) next to a weather ship. The ones I were in made it all the way across without incident, but my father would not let us sit next to the propellers. On one cockpit visit we saw the navigator take a sun shot with a sextant through the astrodome. All of which explains why many at the time choose liners.

bkev 2y ago
fireproofing was a priority (Note: the SS America and SS United States shared the same designer - William Francis Gibbs). Not sure about the SS America, but at least on the SS United States, what wasn’t metal was heavily asbestos - which is the primary reason they had to completely strip the interior fittings on it. It’s mostly an empty shell now. That lack of interior decoration could be considered a significant reason it won’t likely be adapted/reused, which is a shame; it’s a beautiful ship.
cafard 2y ago
The French line Normandie burned at its moorings in New York harbor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Normandie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Normandie