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I resonate strongly with this. I found something pretty simple thats been helping me lately though. I uhh, i just force myself to keep working on it until its d

I resonate strongly with this. I found something pretty simple thats been helping me lately though. I uhh, i just force myself to keep working on it until its done. Grind it out. Work on it especially when i dont want to. Ditch those little relaxing moments for it. Wake up early to find time for it. Its torture. And also therapeutic. I see the incompleteness of my original idea, or plan. I see that the things i declare important feel less so when i have to keep working on it. I start to permanently discard essays, apps, ideas, as i appreciate what it would really take to do them. I say no to myself far more often. I become more disciplined in my work. And more disciplined in my play. I start making more realistic plans and exit points because im not a masochist. Ultimately i let it change me. I obviously wont grind like this forever. But the grind teaches me, and changes me, into the kind of person that finishes things. Which is mostly about learning to be more selective and less impulsive, and knowing when to play and when to put things down and truly let them go.

reichertjalex 2y ago
Yeah, definitely. I know this is a somewhat controversial opinion, but I do think there's value in developing the muscle around "grinding it out". I think the tricky part (depending on your personality type) is knowing when it makes sense to give up and move on to something else.
turtledragonfly 2y ago
> I start making more realistic plans and exit points because im not a masochist. Or, you start to enjoy the pain, because you enjoy the result. But then your mind does its illogical associative thing and you start to just enjoy the pain on its own. Now you're a masochist! I jest, but only some. Ask me how I know ...
- FrankyHollywood 2y ago
  How do you know? :)
  - turtledragonfly 2y ago
    Fine I'll bite :Þ Have a poorly-ordered braindump: In my life, I've kindof developed a rule of thumb: if it's the more difficult path, it's probably the better path. That heuristic isn't always correct, but I find it to be pretty good. Problems can arise when I follow it blindly, though.[1] I've just generally found that a lot of good things in life are on the other side of a barrier, and crossing that barrier usually involves effort and pain. So, it starts to develop into an association of "if it's hard/painful, it's probably leading somewhere good." And that starts to develop into "seek out pain/difficulty." Ironically, I'm also someone who values being comfortable in my own skin. But I feel more comfortable doing something painful for my own (masochistic?) reasons than doing something painful for an external goal. ---- I do feel like there's often an element of masochism in people who excel at some activity. Plenty of stories of top athletes or musicians etc. who do it for their own reasons, and not to win a trophy or acclaim. Getting good at something is generally a painful process of dealing with failure over and over. If you don't have a stomach for that pain, you'll give up. If you grit your teeth and force your way through it, you may become competent, but probably won't excel. If, somehow, you enjoy that pain and are drawn to it, then you will put in the hours to keep getting better and better, unboundedly. But that's just one perspective. The grandparent comment seems more like someone who likes to "keep their eye on the prize," whereas I'm more of a "do it because I enjoy[2] it" person. I suppose if you are motivated strongly enough by some external goal, it could push you through the hard times, too. And if the goal keeps moving, you might keep pushing, unboundedly, too. Not my path, though. See also "Type 1,2,3 fun", eg: https://essentialwilderness.com/type-1-2-and-3-fun/ https://essentialwilderness.com/type-1-2-and-3-fun/ (definitions vary) ---- Also, I find taking a hard path is sort of a Great Filter for other people; there will be fewer others on that path (I'm fairly solitary, so it suits me), and what people there are will have something in common with me. ---- [1] When I hear about people trapped in abusive relationships, trying to "fix" it rather than leaving, I feel like I understand them somewhat. At the same time, some relationships are worth saving, even (especially?) in the hard times, so being able to navigate the pain rather than run away can a strength, too. Depends on the situation. [2] with "enjoy" being somewhat perverse, at times (:
    - FrankyHollywood 2y ago
wonger_ 2y ago
+1 to being selective and ruthlessly deleting time-draining ideas. I'm not sure I can force myself to keep working, though. Self-imposed deadlines don't help me either. It seems like a willpower problem, like going to the gym. What's helped me is making projects alongside a small group of fellow programmers. Seems like the author has done something similar with a hackers co-op chat and with Recurse. External accountability is my most successful motivator.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
  Where do you find these fellow programmers? Are they working on the project with you, or their own things? I work with oodles of software developers and almost none of them program on the side.
  - wonger_ 2y ago
    Yeah, finding them is difficult. Lots of Internet wandering. Mainly finding links through people's blogs. I found this group recently: https://lmt2.com/ https://lmt2.com/ The author made a group: https://www.hackercoop.dev/ https://www.hackercoop.dev/ If you like fiddling with HTML, there's groups like the homebrew website club https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club or sunday sites https://sundaysites.cafe/ https://sundaysites.cafe/. A few open-source communities have forums/channels like #showcase, where it's easy to drop a screenshot and get feedback. I'm thinking of the Discord chats for Textual and p5.js, for example, if your project uses their libraries. Or if you're the party planning type, perhaps consider forming your own group. Even ~6 people meeting once a week for a month works well. Everyone works on their own things.
halfcat 2y ago
> ”i just force myself to keep working on it until its done.” I’ll admit I’m jealous of this. Most days at 5pm I’m just hitting a groove, but kids need to eat, need family time, etc. I’d love to grind from 8am-11pm but rarely have that luxury.
- a-french-anon 2y ago
  I don't want to be too abrasive, but family people unironically complaining (almost humble-bragging in some cases) about their lack of time to others who may or may not have had the same opportunities on that front (e.g. no marriage prospect, possibly loveless life) can be very tiring. tl;dr TRIGGERED
  - Philpax 2y ago
    Please get therapy.
  - bartonfink 2y ago
    I don't want to be too abrasive, but people without families or hobbies tend to fuck up work life balance for the rest of us. It's very tiring dealing with people like you who do nothing but work and bitch about how they don't have anything else going on.
- 0x008 2y ago
  Just to give you maybe another perspective: I think part of what makes the work interesting is that I can’t do it all day as I please. So when I have time to work, I am super motivated. As unsatisfying as that might be. Whenever I have holidays and weekends or unlimited time and want to work on something I usually don’t follow through.

reichertjalex 2y ago

Yeah, definitely. I know this is a somewhat controversial opinion, but I do think there's value in developing the muscle around "grinding it out". I think the tricky part (depending on your personality type) is knowing when it makes sense to give up and move on to something else.

turtledragonfly 2y ago

> I start making more realistic plans and exit points because im not a masochist. Or, you start to enjoy the pain, because you enjoy the result. But then your mind does its illogical associative thing and you start to just enjoy the pain on its own. Now you're a masochist! I jest, but only some. Ask me how I know ...

FrankyHollywood 2y ago
How do you know? :)
- turtledragonfly 2y ago
  Fine I'll bite :Þ Have a poorly-ordered braindump: In my life, I've kindof developed a rule of thumb: if it's the more difficult path, it's probably the better path. That heuristic isn't always correct, but I find it to be pretty good. Problems can arise when I follow it blindly, though.[1] I've just generally found that a lot of good things in life are on the other side of a barrier, and crossing that barrier usually involves effort and pain. So, it starts to develop into an association of "if it's hard/painful, it's probably leading somewhere good." And that starts to develop into "seek out pain/difficulty." Ironically, I'm also someone who values being comfortable in my own skin. But I feel more comfortable doing something painful for my own (masochistic?) reasons than doing something painful for an external goal. ---- I do feel like there's often an element of masochism in people who excel at some activity. Plenty of stories of top athletes or musicians etc. who do it for their own reasons, and not to win a trophy or acclaim. Getting good at something is generally a painful process of dealing with failure over and over. If you don't have a stomach for that pain, you'll give up. If you grit your teeth and force your way through it, you may become competent, but probably won't excel. If, somehow, you enjoy that pain and are drawn to it, then you will put in the hours to keep getting better and better, unboundedly. But that's just one perspective. The grandparent comment seems more like someone who likes to "keep their eye on the prize," whereas I'm more of a "do it because I enjoy[2] it" person. I suppose if you are motivated strongly enough by some external goal, it could push you through the hard times, too. And if the goal keeps moving, you might keep pushing, unboundedly, too. Not my path, though. See also "Type 1,2,3 fun", eg: https://essentialwilderness.com/type-1-2-and-3-fun/ https://essentialwilderness.com/type-1-2-and-3-fun/ (definitions vary) ---- Also, I find taking a hard path is sort of a Great Filter for other people; there will be fewer others on that path (I'm fairly solitary, so it suits me), and what people there are will have something in common with me. ---- [1] When I hear about people trapped in abusive relationships, trying to "fix" it rather than leaving, I feel like I understand them somewhat. At the same time, some relationships are worth saving, even (especially?) in the hard times, so being able to navigate the pain rather than run away can a strength, too. Depends on the situation. [2] with "enjoy" being somewhat perverse, at times (:
  - FrankyHollywood 2y ago

wonger_ 2y ago

+1 to being selective and ruthlessly deleting time-draining ideas. I'm not sure I can force myself to keep working, though. Self-imposed deadlines don't help me either. It seems like a willpower problem, like going to the gym. What's helped me is making projects alongside a small group of fellow programmers. Seems like the author has done something similar with a hackers co-op chat and with Recurse. External accountability is my most successful motivator.

8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
Where do you find these fellow programmers? Are they working on the project with you, or their own things? I work with oodles of software developers and almost none of them program on the side.
- wonger_ 2y ago
  Yeah, finding them is difficult. Lots of Internet wandering. Mainly finding links through people's blogs. I found this group recently: https://lmt2.com/ https://lmt2.com/ The author made a group: https://www.hackercoop.dev/ https://www.hackercoop.dev/ If you like fiddling with HTML, there's groups like the homebrew website club https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club or sunday sites https://sundaysites.cafe/ https://sundaysites.cafe/. A few open-source communities have forums/channels like #showcase, where it's easy to drop a screenshot and get feedback. I'm thinking of the Discord chats for Textual and p5.js, for example, if your project uses their libraries. Or if you're the party planning type, perhaps consider forming your own group. Even ~6 people meeting once a week for a month works well. Everyone works on their own things.

halfcat 2y ago

> ”i just force myself to keep working on it until its done.” I’ll admit I’m jealous of this. Most days at 5pm I’m just hitting a groove, but kids need to eat, need family time, etc. I’d love to grind from 8am-11pm but rarely have that luxury.

a-french-anon 2y ago
I don't want to be too abrasive, but family people unironically complaining (almost humble-bragging in some cases) about their lack of time to others who may or may not have had the same opportunities on that front (e.g. no marriage prospect, possibly loveless life) can be very tiring. tl;dr TRIGGERED
- Philpax 2y ago
  Please get therapy.
- bartonfink 2y ago
  I don't want to be too abrasive, but people without families or hobbies tend to fuck up work life balance for the rest of us. It's very tiring dealing with people like you who do nothing but work and bitch about how they don't have anything else going on.
0x008 2y ago
Just to give you maybe another perspective: I think part of what makes the work interesting is that I can’t do it all day as I please. So when I have time to work, I am super motivated. As unsatisfying as that might be. Whenever I have holidays and weekends or unlimited time and want to work on something I usually don’t follow through.