18 ms·

Seems like a non-sequitur? Why does LLM integration mean that Zed is less good of an editor for junior devs?

by marksomnian 2y ago

simonw 2y ago
Right, LLM integration should be a huge boon for junior developers.
- retrofuturism 2y ago
  Not sure if it's what GP is talking about - but haven't you noticed how many juniors seem to be shooting themselves in the foot with LLMs these days, becoming over-reliant on it and gaining expertise slower?
  - DiabloD3 2y ago
    This is exactly what I'm talking about. Ever since LLMs took over, I've noticed an uptick in my fellow senior developers complain about the quality of work, but I've also seen a huge increase in the poor quality of PRs to open source projects. Like, normally my primary complaint about LLMs is their copyright violating nature, and how it is hanging everyone who has ever published the output of an LLM out to dry, but unless LLM output improves, I think it may end up being a non-issue: their use will die out, and every AI startup will die, just like all the Alt-coin startups did. Want to change my mind on LLM quality? Have it produce code so good that I can't tell the difference between an inexperienced developer (the kind that would be hired into a junior role, not the kind that would be hired for an internship) and the output of this thing.
    - simonw 2y ago
      Here's one of my best documented examples: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Apr/8/files-to-prompt/ https://simonwillison.net/2024/Apr/8/files-to-prompt/ And a more recent example (writing me a Django app): https://simonwillison.net/2024/Aug/8/django-http-debug/#claude-built-the-first-version-of-this-for-me https://simonwillison.net/2024/Aug/8/django-http-debug/#clau...
  - simonw 2y ago
    I've noticed the opposite: people who had never even started learning to program who are now getting stuck in because they don't have to wade through six months of weird error messages about missing semicolons to get started. But I guess I'm talking about complete newbie developers, which is a different category from junior developers. I have 25+ years experience at this point so I'm pretty far removed from truly understanding how this stuff benefits newcomers!

Seems like a non-sequitur? Why does LLM integration mean that Zed is less good of an editor for junior devs?

simonw 2y ago

Right, LLM integration should be a huge boon for junior developers.

retrofuturism 2y ago
Not sure if it's what GP is talking about - but haven't you noticed how many juniors seem to be shooting themselves in the foot with LLMs these days, becoming over-reliant on it and gaining expertise slower?
- DiabloD3 2y ago
  This is exactly what I'm talking about. Ever since LLMs took over, I've noticed an uptick in my fellow senior developers complain about the quality of work, but I've also seen a huge increase in the poor quality of PRs to open source projects. Like, normally my primary complaint about LLMs is their copyright violating nature, and how it is hanging everyone who has ever published the output of an LLM out to dry, but unless LLM output improves, I think it may end up being a non-issue: their use will die out, and every AI startup will die, just like all the Alt-coin startups did. Want to change my mind on LLM quality? Have it produce code so good that I can't tell the difference between an inexperienced developer (the kind that would be hired into a junior role, not the kind that would be hired for an internship) and the output of this thing.
  - simonw 2y ago
    Here's one of my best documented examples: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Apr/8/files-to-prompt/ https://simonwillison.net/2024/Apr/8/files-to-prompt/ And a more recent example (writing me a Django app): https://simonwillison.net/2024/Aug/8/django-http-debug/#claude-built-the-first-version-of-this-for-me https://simonwillison.net/2024/Aug/8/django-http-debug/#clau...
- simonw 2y ago
  I've noticed the opposite: people who had never even started learning to program who are now getting stuck in because they don't have to wade through six months of weird error messages about missing semicolons to get started. But I guess I'm talking about complete newbie developers, which is a different category from junior developers. I have 25+ years experience at this point so I'm pretty far removed from truly understanding how this stuff benefits newcomers!