6 ms·

The solution is one that is unpopular to a good number of consumers, it's to make cars smaller, lighter, and slower. While I'm sure it's happened, death via go

The solution is one that is unpopular to a good number of consumers, it's to make cars smaller, lighter, and slower. While I'm sure it's happened, death via golfcart is a pretty rare occurrence. Death via a Dodge ram, on the other hand, happens all the time. [1] Giant trucks are super popular and super deadly. I was nearly killed by one myself (driver ran a red light while I was in the cross walk). While I wouldn't outright ban them, I definitely would be up to something like requiring a CDL before you can buy one. [1] https://www.autoblog.com/article/most-deadly-cars-other-drivers-crashes/?guccounter=1 https://www.autoblog.com/article/most-deadly-cars-other-driv...

david-gpu 2y ago
I completely agree on all accounts. Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL... and drivers should lose it when they are found driving recklessly. I have no interest in unproven high-tech approaches when we haven't even implemented very basic proven pedestrian safety measures like eliminating street-level parking around pedestrian crossings to increase visibility, or mandating pedestrian safety tests for motor vehicles.
- echelon 2y ago
  > Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL... I'm guessing you don't live in the south. Pickup trucks are a major way of life for a lot of people. They certainly wouldn't be happy about increased regulatory burden. Attitudes on roads vary wildly based on the community in question. There's a large surface area of this country that doesn't care to have non-vehicular traffic sharing the roadways. Urban communities will prioritize different needs than suburban and rural communities. The two ends of the spectrum aren't really compatible because these are wholly different lifestyles that are geographically separable.
  - dmd 2y ago
    We don’t let people carry around lethal weapons just because some people think it’s a “way of life”, so why should it be diff…… oh wait
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      Not relevant. Neither the right to drive, nor the right to drive a pickup truck, is guaranteed in the constitution.
      - r-w 2y ago
        Does that make it any less entrenched?
  - darkhorn 2y ago
    Okay, then they should require CDL when entering a town or any other urban location.
  - chad_oliver 2y ago
    I grew up in rural New Zealand, on a dairy farm. I agree that the needs of suburban and rural communities are very different from the needs of urban communities, but what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)#/media/File:1990-1997_Toyota_Hilux_(LN106R)_DX_4-door_utility_(2007-09-28).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)#/media/File:1990...
    - jjav 2y ago
      > what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute Well depends what you need to do with, of course. A quick search suggests that this Toyota can tow 3300lb (if the trailer has its own brakes, or only 1650lb if not). So if you need to tow more than that, it won't work. 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb. Of course, what is silly is the people with trucks that are never used to tow or carry anything heavier than a bicycle!
      - walleeee 2y ago
        The reality is that many people with a Ram are towing toys (boats, ATVs, etc) or, as you say, a travel trailer, not a work trailer. Which brings us to the question of need vs want. Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well.
        jjav 2y ago
        > Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well. Try shopping for utility trailers. Anything affordable is very heavy steel & lumber. You can get light(er) trailers in aluminum but the price is much higher. I've never actually seen a contractor with one of those, too expensive. And of course there is all the materials & equipment they're towing on it for the job. How do you suggest any of that become lighter?
      - sgu999 2y ago
  - marssaxman 2y ago
    > Pickup trucks are a major way of life for a lot of people. That is the problem which needs to be solved.
    - Spooky23 2y ago
      The industry is taking care of that - the trucks cost has increased like 200% in 20 years.
    - micahdeath 2y ago
      Several SUV's are the same size as trucks. Even some Vans. Small cars don't usually fit families well. =( LOL - I'm imagining a Prius for a family of 6 =P
      - marssaxman 2y ago
        Who says the car has to be small? There were no SUVs when I was a kid; people drove small families around in sedans, and larger ones in station wagons - later, minivans. It worked fine, and this could all be done again.
        mattw2121 2y ago
        I'm not a fan of the truck driving crowd, but why do you get to dictate that someone should drive a minivan instead of a truck?
        marssaxman 2y ago
        Who's pretending I should - I'm just some schmuck on the internet! But it's a matter of plain historical fact that trucks and SUVs took over the American market as a consequence of policies established by the US federal government which made trucks more profitable for manufacturers and ordinary cars less so. Why should we not propose that the mistakes made in one session of Congress ought to be corrected by another?
        david-gpu 2y ago
  - david-gpu 2y ago
    > They certainly wouldn't be happy about increased regulatory burden. And many of us aren't happy about the number of pedestrian deaths caused by these behemoths. Which one should we prioritize?
    - forgetfreeman 2y ago
      As a southerner and an owner of a 1500 I say absolutely prioritize to cut down on pedestrian deaths. I can get a different truck and it'd piss off all the right people.
  - impendia 2y ago
    I live in the Deep South, where I've gotten around on foot, on a bicycle, and by car. It's clear that some drivers see me as a nuisance when I'm walking, but I don't really see that as my problem. In my observation, vehicular traffic anywhere doesn't care to have non-vehicular traffic sharing the roadways. That doesn't mean that pedestrians, cyclists, or regulators should necessarily defer to their wishes.
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  > Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks What about electric vehicles?
- jjav 2y ago
  > Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL Just note that looks can deceive on weight. A Ford Maverick pickup truck is under 3800lb. A Tesla Plaid Model X is over 5300lb!
- toast0 2y ago
  > Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL Pickup trucks don't need to be heavy. Japan has kei pickups, in the US, we had small pickups in the 80s and 90s. And then they disappeared throughout the early 00s. A small truck with a small engine does small truck things, and has decent fuel economy and tremendous visibility. But we can't buy those new anymore because you can't get a small truck to hit cafe standards, so large trucks it is.
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    It's even more ridiculous than all that. We had "large" work-ready trucks as long as vehicles have been on the road that were all noticeably smaller in every dimension except payload. At some point suburban dads flipping the fuck out over their own notional masculinity drove the truck market off a damn cliff. Now 100/1500 series trucks are complete bullshit for towing and can't even fit a full sheet of plywood in the back without dropping the tailgate or propping it up on something. I swear I'm -this- close from trading my full sized truck in for one of those weird little Japanese deals with the actual full sized bed and built in dump (!!) and just hire out my towing to someone else.
    - rpcope1 2y ago
      It's really silly how few trucks you see with 8 foot beds anymore. Half of the stuff built now has a shorter bed than one of my S10s (6-7ft), and loading sheet lumber in a shorter bed really really sucks (you've either got to leave the tailgate open or prop it up on the tailgate, and either way you've now got a pretty serious liability that you've got to strap down real well). The trend towards unibody trucks is also strange since it means you can't pitch the pickup bed for a more useful flatbed or a Reading bed. I used to wonder why trucks didn't come off the lot with at least a tommy gate and a ladder rack, but I've since come to realize the vast majority of people (especially people purchasing half ton trucks) would never use or even know what to do this those. The kei trucks aren't really a good replacement even for an S10 since so far as I can tell they won't run at highway speeds, but they're really good replacement for the Canam and Polaris money pits people buy (and are certainly way more capable of real work).
aidenn0 2y ago
As a bicyclist, Dodge Rams are easily the hardest (un-raised) vehicles on me for visibility, short of full sized tractor-trailers. I cannot see over the hood while on my bicycle, so presumably neither can anyone on the other side see me. Despite being sold as light-duty, the engine compartment appears to me to be much larger than even a medium-duty box truck (many, but not all of these are cab-forward designs which complicates comparison). As a driver of a compact car, the fact that they put the headlights at the very top of the massive grille is just terrible, and there seems to be an arms race between pickup manufacturers to place the headlights as high as possible. Again, by comparison to medium-duty vehicles, the Freightliner M2 106 puts the headlights right above the bumper.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Dodge Rams are also #1 with drunk drivers[1]: [...] one in every 22 Dodge Ram 2500 drivers has a drunk driving conviction on their record. The national average is one in 56 drivers, meaning Dodge Ram 2500 drivers are more than twice as likely to have a DUI conviction on their record compared to all other drivers on the road. 1: https://aacriminallaw.com/the-most-common-vehicles-for-drunk-driving-arrests https://aacriminallaw.com/the-most-common-vehicles-for-drunk...
  - iambateman 2y ago
    My takeaway from this is that 1-in-50 drivers have a DUI. That’s an order of magnitude higher than I would’ve guessed. Unbelievable!
    - erikaww 2y ago
      It’s crazy these individuals are forgiven.
      - Spivak 2y ago
        [flagged]
marinmania 2y ago
I don't completely disagree with you, but the main factor is really speed. Golf carts top out at 15mph and at that speed pedestrians don't die when they are hit by trucks either. https://mobikefed.org/2020/10/research-risk-death-pedestrians-cyclists-increases-dramatically-motor-vehicle-speed https://mobikefed.org/2020/10/research-risk-death-pedestrian...
- david-gpu 2y ago
  Speed, tall and blunt hoods, and the piss poor visibility all affect how dangerous a vehicle is. That is why I singled out pickup trucks; not that they are the only problematic motor vehicle on the roads nowadays.
bfrog 2y ago
Giant trucks are entirely unnecessary. Most work is done with a work van not truck now. Trucks can’t even carry sheet goods sensibly even more. Even if they can the beds are so high as to be impractical loading and unloading. Modern pick ups are urban tanks meant to out weigh other vehicles protecting the occupants. That’s why people buy them, because they are scared. Of the other scared idiots in the other urban tanks.
AlexandrB 2y ago
The other, equally unpopular, solution is more stringent standards for getting a license and mandatory periodic re-tests to confirm you still know how to drive. It's way too easy to get a license in North America and many people forget everything they needed to learn to get one in short order.
hoosieree 2y ago
Within city limits, certain types of large vehicles should always be allowed, like public transit, emergency response, and commercial delivery trucks. Those drivers already get special training and/or special licensing. Otherwise there should be nothing bigger/faster/louder than a standard gas-powered golf cart. Bonus: golf carts are fun. When was the last time you had fun driving at 25mph?

david-gpu 2y ago

I completely agree on all accounts. Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL... and drivers should lose it when they are found driving recklessly. I have no interest in unproven high-tech approaches when we haven't even implemented very basic proven pedestrian safety measures like eliminating street-level parking around pedestrian crossings to increase visibility, or mandating pedestrian safety tests for motor vehicles.

echelon 2y ago
> Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL... I'm guessing you don't live in the south. Pickup trucks are a major way of life for a lot of people. They certainly wouldn't be happy about increased regulatory burden. Attitudes on roads vary wildly based on the community in question. There's a large surface area of this country that doesn't care to have non-vehicular traffic sharing the roadways. Urban communities will prioritize different needs than suburban and rural communities. The two ends of the spectrum aren't really compatible because these are wholly different lifestyles that are geographically separable.
- dmd 2y ago
  We don’t let people carry around lethal weapons just because some people think it’s a “way of life”, so why should it be diff…… oh wait
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Not relevant. Neither the right to drive, nor the right to drive a pickup truck, is guaranteed in the constitution.
    - r-w 2y ago
      Does that make it any less entrenched?
- darkhorn 2y ago
  Okay, then they should require CDL when entering a town or any other urban location.
- chad_oliver 2y ago
  I grew up in rural New Zealand, on a dairy farm. I agree that the needs of suburban and rural communities are very different from the needs of urban communities, but what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)#/media/File:1990-1997_Toyota_Hilux_(LN106R)_DX_4-door_utility_(2007-09-28).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_(vehicle)#/media/File:1990...
  - jjav 2y ago
    > what confuses me is why Americans (and increasingly, Kiwis) need a vehicle the size of a Dodge Ram rather than one the size of a 1990 HiLux ute Well depends what you need to do with, of course. A quick search suggests that this Toyota can tow 3300lb (if the trailer has its own brakes, or only 1650lb if not). So if you need to tow more than that, it won't work. 3300lb is very little, even our tiny (19ft) and light travel trailer is over 4000lb. Of course, what is silly is the people with trucks that are never used to tow or carry anything heavier than a bicycle!
    - walleeee 2y ago
      The reality is that many people with a Ram are towing toys (boats, ATVs, etc) or, as you say, a travel trailer, not a work trailer. Which brings us to the question of need vs want. Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well.
      - jjav 2y ago
        > Plus, if work vehicles became lighter, work trailers would be forced to as well. Try shopping for utility trailers. Anything affordable is very heavy steel & lumber. You can get light(er) trailers in aluminum but the price is much higher. I've never actually seen a contractor with one of those, too expensive. And of course there is all the materials & equipment they're towing on it for the job. How do you suggest any of that become lighter?
    - sgu999 2y ago
- marssaxman 2y ago
  > Pickup trucks are a major way of life for a lot of people. That is the problem which needs to be solved.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    The industry is taking care of that - the trucks cost has increased like 200% in 20 years.
  - micahdeath 2y ago
    Several SUV's are the same size as trucks. Even some Vans. Small cars don't usually fit families well. =( LOL - I'm imagining a Prius for a family of 6 =P
    - marssaxman 2y ago
      Who says the car has to be small? There were no SUVs when I was a kid; people drove small families around in sedans, and larger ones in station wagons - later, minivans. It worked fine, and this could all be done again.
      - mattw2121 2y ago
        I'm not a fan of the truck driving crowd, but why do you get to dictate that someone should drive a minivan instead of a truck?
        marssaxman 2y ago
        Who's pretending I should - I'm just some schmuck on the internet! But it's a matter of plain historical fact that trucks and SUVs took over the American market as a consequence of policies established by the US federal government which made trucks more profitable for manufacturers and ordinary cars less so. Why should we not propose that the mistakes made in one session of Congress ought to be corrected by another?
        david-gpu 2y ago
- david-gpu 2y ago
  > They certainly wouldn't be happy about increased regulatory burden. And many of us aren't happy about the number of pedestrian deaths caused by these behemoths. Which one should we prioritize?
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    As a southerner and an owner of a 1500 I say absolutely prioritize to cut down on pedestrian deaths. I can get a different truck and it'd piss off all the right people.
- impendia 2y ago
  I live in the Deep South, where I've gotten around on foot, on a bicycle, and by car. It's clear that some drivers see me as a nuisance when I'm walking, but I don't really see that as my problem. In my observation, vehicular traffic anywhere doesn't care to have non-vehicular traffic sharing the roadways. That doesn't mean that pedestrians, cyclists, or regulators should necessarily defer to their wishes.
candiddevmike 2y ago
> Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks What about electric vehicles?
jjav 2y ago
> Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL Just note that looks can deceive on weight. A Ford Maverick pickup truck is under 3800lb. A Tesla Plaid Model X is over 5300lb!
toast0 2y ago
> Heavy vehicles such as pickup trucks should require a CDL Pickup trucks don't need to be heavy. Japan has kei pickups, in the US, we had small pickups in the 80s and 90s. And then they disappeared throughout the early 00s. A small truck with a small engine does small truck things, and has decent fuel economy and tremendous visibility. But we can't buy those new anymore because you can't get a small truck to hit cafe standards, so large trucks it is.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  It's even more ridiculous than all that. We had "large" work-ready trucks as long as vehicles have been on the road that were all noticeably smaller in every dimension except payload. At some point suburban dads flipping the fuck out over their own notional masculinity drove the truck market off a damn cliff. Now 100/1500 series trucks are complete bullshit for towing and can't even fit a full sheet of plywood in the back without dropping the tailgate or propping it up on something. I swear I'm -this- close from trading my full sized truck in for one of those weird little Japanese deals with the actual full sized bed and built in dump (!!) and just hire out my towing to someone else.
  - rpcope1 2y ago
    It's really silly how few trucks you see with 8 foot beds anymore. Half of the stuff built now has a shorter bed than one of my S10s (6-7ft), and loading sheet lumber in a shorter bed really really sucks (you've either got to leave the tailgate open or prop it up on the tailgate, and either way you've now got a pretty serious liability that you've got to strap down real well). The trend towards unibody trucks is also strange since it means you can't pitch the pickup bed for a more useful flatbed or a Reading bed. I used to wonder why trucks didn't come off the lot with at least a tommy gate and a ladder rack, but I've since come to realize the vast majority of people (especially people purchasing half ton trucks) would never use or even know what to do this those. The kei trucks aren't really a good replacement even for an S10 since so far as I can tell they won't run at highway speeds, but they're really good replacement for the Canam and Polaris money pits people buy (and are certainly way more capable of real work).

aidenn0 2y ago

As a bicyclist, Dodge Rams are easily the hardest (un-raised) vehicles on me for visibility, short of full sized tractor-trailers. I cannot see over the hood while on my bicycle, so presumably neither can anyone on the other side see me. Despite being sold as light-duty, the engine compartment appears to me to be much larger than even a medium-duty box truck (many, but not all of these are cab-forward designs which complicates comparison). As a driver of a compact car, the fact that they put the headlights at the very top of the massive grille is just terrible, and there seems to be an arms race between pickup manufacturers to place the headlights as high as possible. Again, by comparison to medium-duty vehicles, the Freightliner M2 106 puts the headlights right above the bumper.

ryandrake 2y ago
Dodge Rams are also #1 with drunk drivers[1]: [...] one in every 22 Dodge Ram 2500 drivers has a drunk driving conviction on their record. The national average is one in 56 drivers, meaning Dodge Ram 2500 drivers are more than twice as likely to have a DUI conviction on their record compared to all other drivers on the road. 1: https://aacriminallaw.com/the-most-common-vehicles-for-drunk-driving-arrests https://aacriminallaw.com/the-most-common-vehicles-for-drunk...
- iambateman 2y ago
  My takeaway from this is that 1-in-50 drivers have a DUI. That’s an order of magnitude higher than I would’ve guessed. Unbelievable!
  - erikaww 2y ago
    It’s crazy these individuals are forgiven.
    - Spivak 2y ago
      [flagged]

marinmania 2y ago

I don't completely disagree with you, but the main factor is really speed. Golf carts top out at 15mph and at that speed pedestrians don't die when they are hit by trucks either. https://mobikefed.org/2020/10/research-risk-death-pedestrians-cyclists-increases-dramatically-motor-vehicle-speed https://mobikefed.org/2020/10/research-risk-death-pedestrian...

david-gpu 2y ago
Speed, tall and blunt hoods, and the piss poor visibility all affect how dangerous a vehicle is. That is why I singled out pickup trucks; not that they are the only problematic motor vehicle on the roads nowadays.

bfrog 2y ago

Giant trucks are entirely unnecessary. Most work is done with a work van not truck now. Trucks can’t even carry sheet goods sensibly even more. Even if they can the beds are so high as to be impractical loading and unloading. Modern pick ups are urban tanks meant to out weigh other vehicles protecting the occupants. That’s why people buy them, because they are scared. Of the other scared idiots in the other urban tanks.

AlexandrB 2y ago

The other, equally unpopular, solution is more stringent standards for getting a license and mandatory periodic re-tests to confirm you still know how to drive. It's way too easy to get a license in North America and many people forget everything they needed to learn to get one in short order.

hoosieree 2y ago

Within city limits, certain types of large vehicles should always be allowed, like public transit, emergency response, and commercial delivery trucks. Those drivers already get special training and/or special licensing. Otherwise there should be nothing bigger/faster/louder than a standard gas-powered golf cart. Bonus: golf carts are fun. When was the last time you had fun driving at 25mph?