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Toasts also give you a good place to put other shortcuts like “Item updated. [View item]” that make it much easier to act on state changes, like navigate to sen

Toasts also give you a good place to put other shortcuts like “Item updated. [View item]” that make it much easier to act on state changes, like navigate to sensible places to view / react to those changes.

datavirtue 2y ago
All of that is inacessible.
- lolinder 2y ago
  How so?
  - jdiff 2y ago
    Screen reader's probably not going to catch a transient element unless you just happen to stumble across it within that narrow window. Slow reader for whatever reason? Hope you don't take too long, or hope that toast wasn't actually important/actionable for you.
    - jkaptur 2y ago
      The spec has an answer for the "transient element" issue: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/ARIA_Live_Regions https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A.... Of course, this doesn't eliminate the possibility of bad UX.
CRConrad 2y ago
> Toasts also give you a good place to put other shortcuts like “Item updated. [View item]” that make it much easier to act on state changes Not if they go away, and take their “[View item]” button with them, before you've had time to read the notification, decide if you want to click the button, and actually get your cursor there to click it. Which they usually do. So nyaaah, dubious benefit.
- lolinder 2y ago
  So there are badly implemented toasts that have bad UX. That's not the same thing as the whole concept being bad.
  - exmadscientist 2y ago
    If something is so hard to implement that everyone who tries gets it wrong (to a first approximation), then maybe the concept is bad. Or, at least, the concept isn't fully baked and is missing something critical.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Most implementations of toasts-with-actions that I've seen don't have the problem OP described. I more often find myself manually dismissing them than wishing they'd have stuck around longer.
      - TRiG_Ireland 2y ago
        So because you are a fast reader and have a fast reaction time with your mouse, toasts are good for everyone? No.
- michaelmrose 2y ago
  Should complex websites have a notification center where you can look at prior notifications? Would this be alike enough to existing desktop metaphors to be easily recognizable or simply confusing. Maybe your browser should could have an icon for same instead making it more standardized across different sites.
  - hunter2_ 2y ago
    > Browsers that support JavaScript typically implement the Notification API. This API asks for user confirmation to allow popups and give the programmer the opportunity to display notifications with a text (body) along with an descriptive icon and header. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-up_notification#JavaScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-up_notification#JavaScript

datavirtue 2y ago

All of that is inacessible.

lolinder 2y ago
How so?
- jdiff 2y ago
  Screen reader's probably not going to catch a transient element unless you just happen to stumble across it within that narrow window. Slow reader for whatever reason? Hope you don't take too long, or hope that toast wasn't actually important/actionable for you.
  - jkaptur 2y ago
    The spec has an answer for the "transient element" issue: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/ARIA_Live_Regions https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A.... Of course, this doesn't eliminate the possibility of bad UX.

CRConrad 2y ago

> Toasts also give you a good place to put other shortcuts like “Item updated. [View item]” that make it much easier to act on state changes Not if they go away, and take their “[View item]” button with them, before you've had time to read the notification, decide if you want to click the button, and actually get your cursor there to click it. Which they usually do. So nyaaah, dubious benefit.

lolinder 2y ago
So there are badly implemented toasts that have bad UX. That's not the same thing as the whole concept being bad.
- exmadscientist 2y ago
  If something is so hard to implement that everyone who tries gets it wrong (to a first approximation), then maybe the concept is bad. Or, at least, the concept isn't fully baked and is missing something critical.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Most implementations of toasts-with-actions that I've seen don't have the problem OP described. I more often find myself manually dismissing them than wishing they'd have stuck around longer.
    - TRiG_Ireland 2y ago
      So because you are a fast reader and have a fast reaction time with your mouse, toasts are good for everyone? No.
michaelmrose 2y ago
Should complex websites have a notification center where you can look at prior notifications? Would this be alike enough to existing desktop metaphors to be easily recognizable or simply confusing. Maybe your browser should could have an icon for same instead making it more standardized across different sites.
- hunter2_ 2y ago
  > Browsers that support JavaScript typically implement the Notification API. This API asks for user confirmation to allow popups and give the programmer the opportunity to display notifications with a text (body) along with an descriptive icon and header. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-up_notification#JavaScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-up_notification#JavaScript