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I don't understand this idea that you can do anything "privately" on a device designed to collect and leak your personal information whose admin is a corporatio

I don't understand this idea that you can do anything "privately" on a device designed to collect and leak your personal information whose admin is a corporation that can make changes to the system at any time without your consent or awareness, and where multiple parties (carrier, and manufactures) have privileged access to do the same, and where your own access is extremely limited and controlled. The entire system is totally insecure and non-private by design. The idea that dating app could prevent your preferences from being collected seems unlikely to me too. If people are posting profiles and messaging each other on a platform, that platform is going to have no problem learning what their interests are. They don't need to know what you're searching for, as long as they know who you're finding.

tsimionescu 2y ago
Whenever you use an online service, you share at least all of your data related to that service with that service (often they get even more data than you think). The companies making your phone, your OS, maybe your baseband, and any advanced attackers may also be getting some or all of this data. Many of these parties may be sharing this data with other parties that they trust, and their employees may be using it for their own ends too. This much is at least partly understood by most people and it is impossible to use an electronic device and an online service without exposing yourself to all of this. But what you don't expect is that any other user of that service has access to your data. That is a completely different level of privacy breach. And it's also one that people using a dating app in particular have much more reason to worry about than the more nebulous threat from above. Especially when they're not out in their community about their romantic and/or sexual preferences, and are told by the app that it hides this information.
- eru 2y ago
  > The companies making your phone, your OS, [...] These expectations are very different in the desktop computer world. When I use a website or a program, neither the various people who made the components in my computer nor the people who made my OS learn anything at all. So it's reasonable, at least on the surface, for some people to develop similar expectations on eg mobile devices.
  - tsimionescu 2y ago
    The situation is not that different for desktop OSs. Apple, at least by default, knows every app you launch on MacOS (through the security feature they have of checking some hash of the executable against their database). Windows collects all kinds of metrics and info about everything you do, including detailed crash dumps that leak who knows what information. Both Intel and AMD CPUs have secure enclaves that run full blown OSs that you have no control over and do who knows what; and those have access to your network devices as well. If you're running a Linux, you're probably much more protected, but even then, on Ubuntu and most other popular distros, you probably download all or most of your apps with apt or rpm from their own official repos, so they probably can get a pretty good idea of what you're running. The situation is generally better than on mobile, but unless you're taking significant pains, you're still a pretty open book to your OS manufacturer. Whether they're reading this book or not is a separate matter.
    - eru 2y ago
      > If you're running a Linux, you're probably much more protected, but even then, on Ubuntu and most other popular distros, you probably download all or most of your apps with apt or rpm from their own official repos, so they probably can get a pretty good idea of what you're running. Yes, but not when nor whether you are actually using the apps you have installed. Nor any data created at runtime.
perching_aix 2y ago
I'm not sure you genuinely don't understand, the privacy promised was very clearly inteded to be from other users, not the service itself, or those who may be able to get unauthorized access to your/their devices and data. It was just phrased in an oh-so-typically misleading way by the service provider. Yes, these groups might overlap, particularly the users and those with unauthorized access to the service provider's devices and data (as demonstrated in the article). But identifying this as a concern I don't think is much of a revelation. Like yeah, unauthorized access is a privacy concern, who woulda known.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
phkahler 2y ago
Clearly you didn't read the article before commenting. It's not about "big brother" collecting your data. It's about other users of the app being able to see your data on their device.
- autoexec 2y ago
  Why would other users on a dating app ever be able see what you're filtering when searching for other users in the app? Is that normal? Would they get a "This person was searching for X hair color/age range/gender and found you" message? Why would processing your searches client side be needed just to stop other users from seeing what you searched for? The company could just not share that data and still process it on their servers.
  - mjg59 2y ago
    It's not normal. That's the point.
kube-system 2y ago
Privacy isn't about keeping secrets from everyone, it is about the selective control of personal information. The people who use dating apps want to share their information with some people, and not others.

tsimionescu 2y ago

Whenever you use an online service, you share at least all of your data related to that service with that service (often they get even more data than you think). The companies making your phone, your OS, maybe your baseband, and any advanced attackers may also be getting some or all of this data. Many of these parties may be sharing this data with other parties that they trust, and their employees may be using it for their own ends too. This much is at least partly understood by most people and it is impossible to use an electronic device and an online service without exposing yourself to all of this. But what you don't expect is that any other user of that service has access to your data. That is a completely different level of privacy breach. And it's also one that people using a dating app in particular have much more reason to worry about than the more nebulous threat from above. Especially when they're not out in their community about their romantic and/or sexual preferences, and are told by the app that it hides this information.

eru 2y ago
> The companies making your phone, your OS, [...] These expectations are very different in the desktop computer world. When I use a website or a program, neither the various people who made the components in my computer nor the people who made my OS learn anything at all. So it's reasonable, at least on the surface, for some people to develop similar expectations on eg mobile devices.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  The situation is not that different for desktop OSs. Apple, at least by default, knows every app you launch on MacOS (through the security feature they have of checking some hash of the executable against their database). Windows collects all kinds of metrics and info about everything you do, including detailed crash dumps that leak who knows what information. Both Intel and AMD CPUs have secure enclaves that run full blown OSs that you have no control over and do who knows what; and those have access to your network devices as well. If you're running a Linux, you're probably much more protected, but even then, on Ubuntu and most other popular distros, you probably download all or most of your apps with apt or rpm from their own official repos, so they probably can get a pretty good idea of what you're running. The situation is generally better than on mobile, but unless you're taking significant pains, you're still a pretty open book to your OS manufacturer. Whether they're reading this book or not is a separate matter.
  - eru 2y ago
    > If you're running a Linux, you're probably much more protected, but even then, on Ubuntu and most other popular distros, you probably download all or most of your apps with apt or rpm from their own official repos, so they probably can get a pretty good idea of what you're running. Yes, but not when nor whether you are actually using the apps you have installed. Nor any data created at runtime.

perching_aix 2y ago

I'm not sure you genuinely don't understand, the privacy promised was very clearly inteded to be from other users, not the service itself, or those who may be able to get unauthorized access to your/their devices and data. It was just phrased in an oh-so-typically misleading way by the service provider. Yes, these groups might overlap, particularly the users and those with unauthorized access to the service provider's devices and data (as demonstrated in the article). But identifying this as a concern I don't think is much of a revelation. Like yeah, unauthorized access is a privacy concern, who woulda known.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

phkahler 2y ago

Clearly you didn't read the article before commenting. It's not about "big brother" collecting your data. It's about other users of the app being able to see your data on their device.

autoexec 2y ago
Why would other users on a dating app ever be able see what you're filtering when searching for other users in the app? Is that normal? Would they get a "This person was searching for X hair color/age range/gender and found you" message? Why would processing your searches client side be needed just to stop other users from seeing what you searched for? The company could just not share that data and still process it on their servers.
- mjg59 2y ago
  It's not normal. That's the point.

kube-system 2y ago

Privacy isn't about keeping secrets from everyone, it is about the selective control of personal information. The people who use dating apps want to share their information with some people, and not others.