5 ms·

More engineers doesn't automatically mean better software. Sometimes the opposite.

CydeWeys 2y ago
Large-scale layoffs almost never means better software though.
e3bc54b2 2y ago
Layoffs almost always mean the few engineers that can do better than more engineers are on the way out, if not via layoffs, then voluntarily.
- CydeWeys 2y ago
  And the ones that remain have terribly reduced morale and lose productivity.
  - K0balt 2y ago
    This seems like a great Reason to avoid hiring as much as possible , and use contractors for any work that could potentially be lost by non-renewal of contracts or program cancellations.
    - CydeWeys 2y ago
      Agreed on your first point, not on your second point. Lots of tech companies did over-hire during the pandemic in a way that had entirely foreseeable results, but everyone simply got caught up in the FOMO. On the contractor front though, you aren't going to remotely get the best and brightest by going that way, not unless you're actually contracting with industry leaders who are going to be charging way more than FTEs will cost you (and there aren't that many industry leaders). There are so many good tech companies out there offering FTE positions, so a company offering a lower-paid, lower-benefits contracting positions is simply not going to be competitive in the labor marketplace.
- silisili 2y ago
  A lesson I learned at my first programming gig. I worked with a lot of really smart people, one might describe as 'rock stars' or 10x or whatever. The company was flush with government contracts and it showed. Apparently one of the largest contracts wasn't renewed, and there was a couple rounds of back to back layoffs. Though none of them were affected, every single one was gone within a year. The only people that remained were those who couldn't get a job elsewhere, and those super comfortable who weren't necessarily bad but not setting the world on fire. The company was pretty much a zombie until it was bought out years later.
  - ryandvm 2y ago
    Absolutely. The good engineers are always the first to leave a smelly ship. Then you're just left with engineers whose chief skill is kissing their manager's ass.
  - fma 2y ago
    Last year GM offered Voluntary Separation Package. Those who had 5 or more years of experience would get 1 month of pay + prorated bonus + health insurance compensation. You can guess who took the offer. 5000 of your experienced employees who have the ability to pursue other opportunities.
gedy 2y ago
I'd venture a company like GM would just try and replace them with as many third party contractors or outsourced vendors, and not actually "slim the team down", etc
suyash 2y ago
Exactly twitter was the biggest proof of that.
- joeyagreco 2y ago
  Twitter became a much worse app (as far as user experience goes) imo after the firings. The replies to a tweet being filled with bots/ads instead of relevant conversation alone makes the app borderline unusable.
  - suyash 2y ago
    They have released ton's more features including AI - grok, premium subscription with no ads, growth has been record high all run with much less engineers, it's more optimized and better now IMO. In tech companies, it's not just about headcount, one needs a strong leader to drive company towards greater success like Elon.
    - kamaal 2y ago
      The site was seriously broken for a long time. And that attracted all kinds of bots, and 'List of 10 Machiavellian things to learn' kind of bots, not to forgot all sorts of other evil bots. For a long time, the search and trending section was broken. Many times you could not hear anything in a space, empty tweets would show up, tweets would come up with Unix timestamp and therefore sorting was broken. Site would be down a lot of times. Even till date you don't see an ad for a thing you want to buy. Perhaps the biggest damage is there seems to a significant increase in toxicity platform wide. >>They have released ton's more features including AI - grok Compared to most AI products out there, you can't even try their AI product and see if you want to buy subscription. >>In tech companies, it's not just about headcount, one needs a strong leader to drive company towards greater success like Elon. Note, code and features are not all there is to a business. Its only natural for us developers to assume the world revolves around us. The reality is actually very different. You need lots of other people to keep a company running. At this rate Mr Musk won't see return on his investments anytime soon.
    - spamtarget 2y ago

Large-scale layoffs almost never means better software though.

Layoffs almost always mean the few engineers that can do better than more engineers are on the way out, if not via layoffs, then voluntarily.

CydeWeys 2y ago
And the ones that remain have terribly reduced morale and lose productivity.
- K0balt 2y ago
  This seems like a great Reason to avoid hiring as much as possible , and use contractors for any work that could potentially be lost by non-renewal of contracts or program cancellations.
  - CydeWeys 2y ago
    Agreed on your first point, not on your second point. Lots of tech companies did over-hire during the pandemic in a way that had entirely foreseeable results, but everyone simply got caught up in the FOMO. On the contractor front though, you aren't going to remotely get the best and brightest by going that way, not unless you're actually contracting with industry leaders who are going to be charging way more than FTEs will cost you (and there aren't that many industry leaders). There are so many good tech companies out there offering FTE positions, so a company offering a lower-paid, lower-benefits contracting positions is simply not going to be competitive in the labor marketplace.
silisili 2y ago
A lesson I learned at my first programming gig. I worked with a lot of really smart people, one might describe as 'rock stars' or 10x or whatever. The company was flush with government contracts and it showed. Apparently one of the largest contracts wasn't renewed, and there was a couple rounds of back to back layoffs. Though none of them were affected, every single one was gone within a year. The only people that remained were those who couldn't get a job elsewhere, and those super comfortable who weren't necessarily bad but not setting the world on fire. The company was pretty much a zombie until it was bought out years later.
- ryandvm 2y ago
  Absolutely. The good engineers are always the first to leave a smelly ship. Then you're just left with engineers whose chief skill is kissing their manager's ass.
- fma 2y ago
  Last year GM offered Voluntary Separation Package. Those who had 5 or more years of experience would get 1 month of pay + prorated bonus + health insurance compensation. You can guess who took the offer. 5000 of your experienced employees who have the ability to pursue other opportunities.

gedy 2y ago

I'd venture a company like GM would just try and replace them with as many third party contractors or outsourced vendors, and not actually "slim the team down", etc

suyash 2y ago

Exactly twitter was the biggest proof of that.

joeyagreco 2y ago
Twitter became a much worse app (as far as user experience goes) imo after the firings. The replies to a tweet being filled with bots/ads instead of relevant conversation alone makes the app borderline unusable.
- suyash 2y ago
  They have released ton's more features including AI - grok, premium subscription with no ads, growth has been record high all run with much less engineers, it's more optimized and better now IMO. In tech companies, it's not just about headcount, one needs a strong leader to drive company towards greater success like Elon.
  - kamaal 2y ago
    The site was seriously broken for a long time. And that attracted all kinds of bots, and 'List of 10 Machiavellian things to learn' kind of bots, not to forgot all sorts of other evil bots. For a long time, the search and trending section was broken. Many times you could not hear anything in a space, empty tweets would show up, tweets would come up with Unix timestamp and therefore sorting was broken. Site would be down a lot of times. Even till date you don't see an ad for a thing you want to buy. Perhaps the biggest damage is there seems to a significant increase in toxicity platform wide. >>They have released ton's more features including AI - grok Compared to most AI products out there, you can't even try their AI product and see if you want to buy subscription. >>In tech companies, it's not just about headcount, one needs a strong leader to drive company towards greater success like Elon. Note, code and features are not all there is to a business. Its only natural for us developers to assume the world revolves around us. The reality is actually very different. You need lots of other people to keep a company running. At this rate Mr Musk won't see return on his investments anytime soon.
  - spamtarget 2y ago