3 ms·

I just really like ram, fomo, don't want to run out. You're already spending $50 + tax, $80 for 4x more ram is a bargain. I grew up on machines chronically st

I just really like ram, fomo, don't want to run out. You're already spending $50 + tax, $80 for 4x more ram is a bargain. I grew up on machines chronically starved, think 16MB for Mac system 5-7, and 32MB for win98 :) (which leaked like a mofo, reboot required every 20 minutes.)

tjoff 2y ago
Over 60% extra... It's only a bargain if you need it. For a general purpose computer I'm with you, but the Pi5 often isn't used as a general purpose computer so if you know the software isn't going to be using it then it is pure waste.
- alias_neo 2y ago
  You're absolutely right. I'd say for a specific application, I'd guesstimate you probably want it to be using something like 80% of the RAM when it's running full-tilt, maybe you'd want some headroom for upgrades. Pi's aren't a great value for general purpose computing when cube-PCs will get you orders of magnitude more power and functionality for 2-4x the price, and people often neglect to factor in the price of a case, PSU, storage which stack up the cost rapidly. Every generation I grab a couple of the latest model-B and run a few quick desktop tests to see where they're at subjectively (no benchmarks, just boot it up and "use" it) and Pi 5 is still orders of lower than what I expect from a computer. Put them to work in a specific application and their reliability and great ubiquity shine; I have a couple of Pis in 3D printers, one powering a touch-screen dashboard, a couple in my server rack for Hashicorp Vault, Unifi Server, ARM build server, a half a dozen or so in home-made speaker/TTS devices, a couple in retro gaming-handhelds, one in a dedicated WiFi AP for MiTM/testing/traffic-inspection, and one with a NVMe HAT running a file-server for low-power network storage. Each Pi serves a purpose, and I've allocated a device a specific model based on its requirements; a couple of them are probably over-powered just due to having a specific Pi spare, but I try to shuffle them around to be using the weakest/cheapest Pi available that suits the purpose.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > and their reliability ... don't forget to add more cooling for that reliability
    - alias_neo 2y ago
      Yes definitely. In my experience I've only ever had to cool models from the Pi4 upwards. Of course the number of them I'm running is small, so it's anecdotal, but over years since the launch of the first Pi (which I still have), they're all still chugging along, with all but the Pi4s and Pi5s completely un-cooled (no heatsinks or fans).
      - nottorp 2y ago
        I'm sort of whining a bit. I'd like it if they still kept a weaker Pi that doesn't require cooling in production. Not the Zeros though, full featured ones.
        fanf2 2y ago
        You can still buy a Raspberry Pi 3. The more recent models can run without cooling; they will throttle if necessary.
        nottorp 2y ago
        Do they still manufacture it? Or is it old stock? Or is the A+ the new Raspberry PI 3? It seems to have a different form factor though. I don't see 3 Bs in stock in my usual places. 4s and 5s are plenty though.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    > Pi's aren't a great value for general purpose computing when cube-PCs will get you orders of magnitude more power and functionality for 2-4x the price Eh, not orders of magnitude more. An RP5 is like 25% of the speed of an Apple M3.
- rwalle 2y ago
  I would guess most consumer purchases of pi's are setting in a drawer gathering dust. So less RAM is less of a waste of money. (Don't ask how I know it)
smilespray 2y ago
I remember rebooting my Mac every time I went for coffee. Prevenative maintenance...
TeMPOraL 2y ago
RAM FOMO is a real thing indeed. Switching from Windows to Linux is how I caught it; suddenly, having not enough RAM was no longer a minor annoyance, but a critical problem preventing use of the machine.
- moooo99 2y ago
  For me the experience was quite different. On windows I was constantly out of RAM for some reason, windows idling was already chewing through 6 GBs and didn’t seem to free a lot when memory pressure increased. On Linux I barely run into RAM issues anymore since everything seems to run more efficiently
- kalleboo 2y ago
  I've always wondered, has there never been an effort to add to Linux a dynamic swap file like Windows and macOS ("X") have always had?
  - theblazehen 2y ago
    Yes, I've used systemd-swap https://github.com/nefelim4ag/systemd-swap https://github.com/nefelim4ag/systemd-swap
  - vbezhenar 2y ago
    Should be trivial with simple cron script? Just check swap usage once a minute and create/delete /swapfile-N as necessary.
  - dspillett 2y ago
    The problem with expanding page files is that by the time you really need them (they are expanding a lot) you might be past the point of no return where just hitting the power button is your best option. Once you are using a lot of paging, chances are performance has fallen through the floor to the point where doing anything to fix it (killing run-away processes, closing other processes (killing those that won't go willingly)) takes so long that you are fighting a losing battle. This is less of an issue with fast SD drives than it is with spinning rust (or slow SD cards / eMMC with some smaller devices) but still essentially the case. I just have enough swap defined for some small unusual circumstances and assume that if I need more than that things are falling over anyway so OOM taking things our is not going to make it worse (if they continued to thrash I'd have to kill them anyway).

tjoff 2y ago

Over 60% extra... It's only a bargain if you need it. For a general purpose computer I'm with you, but the Pi5 often isn't used as a general purpose computer so if you know the software isn't going to be using it then it is pure waste.

alias_neo 2y ago
You're absolutely right. I'd say for a specific application, I'd guesstimate you probably want it to be using something like 80% of the RAM when it's running full-tilt, maybe you'd want some headroom for upgrades. Pi's aren't a great value for general purpose computing when cube-PCs will get you orders of magnitude more power and functionality for 2-4x the price, and people often neglect to factor in the price of a case, PSU, storage which stack up the cost rapidly. Every generation I grab a couple of the latest model-B and run a few quick desktop tests to see where they're at subjectively (no benchmarks, just boot it up and "use" it) and Pi 5 is still orders of lower than what I expect from a computer. Put them to work in a specific application and their reliability and great ubiquity shine; I have a couple of Pis in 3D printers, one powering a touch-screen dashboard, a couple in my server rack for Hashicorp Vault, Unifi Server, ARM build server, a half a dozen or so in home-made speaker/TTS devices, a couple in retro gaming-handhelds, one in a dedicated WiFi AP for MiTM/testing/traffic-inspection, and one with a NVMe HAT running a file-server for low-power network storage. Each Pi serves a purpose, and I've allocated a device a specific model based on its requirements; a couple of them are probably over-powered just due to having a specific Pi spare, but I try to shuffle them around to be using the weakest/cheapest Pi available that suits the purpose.
- nottorp 2y ago
  > and their reliability ... don't forget to add more cooling for that reliability
  - alias_neo 2y ago
    Yes definitely. In my experience I've only ever had to cool models from the Pi4 upwards. Of course the number of them I'm running is small, so it's anecdotal, but over years since the launch of the first Pi (which I still have), they're all still chugging along, with all but the Pi4s and Pi5s completely un-cooled (no heatsinks or fans).
    - nottorp 2y ago
      I'm sort of whining a bit. I'd like it if they still kept a weaker Pi that doesn't require cooling in production. Not the Zeros though, full featured ones.
      - fanf2 2y ago
        You can still buy a Raspberry Pi 3. The more recent models can run without cooling; they will throttle if necessary.
        nottorp 2y ago
        Do they still manufacture it? Or is it old stock? Or is the A+ the new Raspberry PI 3? It seems to have a different form factor though. I don't see 3 Bs in stock in my usual places. 4s and 5s are plenty though.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  > Pi's aren't a great value for general purpose computing when cube-PCs will get you orders of magnitude more power and functionality for 2-4x the price Eh, not orders of magnitude more. An RP5 is like 25% of the speed of an Apple M3.
rwalle 2y ago
I would guess most consumer purchases of pi's are setting in a drawer gathering dust. So less RAM is less of a waste of money. (Don't ask how I know it)

smilespray 2y ago

I remember rebooting my Mac every time I went for coffee. Prevenative maintenance...

TeMPOraL 2y ago

RAM FOMO is a real thing indeed. Switching from Windows to Linux is how I caught it; suddenly, having not enough RAM was no longer a minor annoyance, but a critical problem preventing use of the machine.

moooo99 2y ago
For me the experience was quite different. On windows I was constantly out of RAM for some reason, windows idling was already chewing through 6 GBs and didn’t seem to free a lot when memory pressure increased. On Linux I barely run into RAM issues anymore since everything seems to run more efficiently
kalleboo 2y ago
I've always wondered, has there never been an effort to add to Linux a dynamic swap file like Windows and macOS ("X") have always had?
- theblazehen 2y ago
  Yes, I've used systemd-swap https://github.com/nefelim4ag/systemd-swap https://github.com/nefelim4ag/systemd-swap
- vbezhenar 2y ago
  Should be trivial with simple cron script? Just check swap usage once a minute and create/delete /swapfile-N as necessary.
- dspillett 2y ago
  The problem with expanding page files is that by the time you really need them (they are expanding a lot) you might be past the point of no return where just hitting the power button is your best option. Once you are using a lot of paging, chances are performance has fallen through the floor to the point where doing anything to fix it (killing run-away processes, closing other processes (killing those that won't go willingly)) takes so long that you are fighting a losing battle. This is less of an issue with fast SD drives than it is with spinning rust (or slow SD cards / eMMC with some smaller devices) but still essentially the case. I just have enough swap defined for some small unusual circumstances and assume that if I need more than that things are falling over anyway so OOM taking things our is not going to make it worse (if they continued to thrash I'd have to kill them anyway).