3 ms·

Sorry for the snark. That was unproductive. My point is that if Alice has what she wants, Bob will not convince her that she doesn't by explaining that she oug

by bulatb 2y ago

Sorry for the snark. That was unproductive. My point is that if Alice has what she wants, Bob will not convince her that she doesn't by explaining that she ought to want what Bob wants, which she doesn't have or want. Especially if what Bob wants, and Alice doesn't, is for Alice to be social with Bob. "You don't live the way I want to" is an observation, not an argument for anyone to change their values or their life.

ethbr1 2y ago
As a pretty serious introvert who may or may not have had depression during undergrad, my experience has been that the time I most need other people and social situations is exactly when I least feel like I want that. Which has made me suspicious of introversion as a local maximum that nonetheless leaves one depressed. Humans don't seem to be built to self-regulate, 24x7, forever. At some point we go off the rails, and other humans (and/or nature) are a good way to kick things back to normal. (And yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not a secret extrovert. It can be exhausting being around strangers when I'm down, but sometimes you need to jump off the waterfall and put on that smile that becomes real)
- vladvasiliu 2y ago
  > my experience has been that the time I most need other people and social situations is exactly when I least feel like I want that. I'm conflicted. I think I get what you're saying, but it doesn't seem to be an argument against bulatb's point, in that both can be true. It's conceivable for me to want to feel like you don't want social interactions and pursue non-directly-social endeavors (think building something, learning an instrument, whatever) without actually being in need of social interaction. I think the point isn't that you should self-regulate 24x7, forever, but to do the social thing on your own terms, not on other people's schedule. Maybe it's a question of quantity. If you only ever do things alone at home and never go out in society, then perhaps there is an issue. It reminds me of alcoholism: wanting to have a drink and saying you're not an alcoholic doesn't mean you're one. It's a question of degree.

by bulatb 2y ago

ethbr1 2y ago

As a pretty serious introvert who may or may not have had depression during undergrad, my experience has been that the time I most need other people and social situations is exactly when I least feel like I want that. Which has made me suspicious of introversion as a local maximum that nonetheless leaves one depressed. Humans don't seem to be built to self-regulate, 24x7, forever. At some point we go off the rails, and other humans (and/or nature) are a good way to kick things back to normal. (And yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not a secret extrovert. It can be exhausting being around strangers when I'm down, but sometimes you need to jump off the waterfall and put on that smile that becomes real)

vladvasiliu 2y ago
> my experience has been that the time I most need other people and social situations is exactly when I least feel like I want that. I'm conflicted. I think I get what you're saying, but it doesn't seem to be an argument against bulatb's point, in that both can be true. It's conceivable for me to want to feel like you don't want social interactions and pursue non-directly-social endeavors (think building something, learning an instrument, whatever) without actually being in need of social interaction. I think the point isn't that you should self-regulate 24x7, forever, but to do the social thing on your own terms, not on other people's schedule. Maybe it's a question of quantity. If you only ever do things alone at home and never go out in society, then perhaps there is an issue. It reminds me of alcoholism: wanting to have a drink and saying you're not an alcoholic doesn't mean you're one. It's a question of degree.