7 ms·

It strikes me as an entirely natural development and something that will appeal to many consumers. I get the feeling Apple have always wanted iPad to be an ext

It strikes me as an entirely natural development and something that will appeal to many consumers. I get the feeling Apple have always wanted iPad to be an extra - an extension to the desktop experience. But the divisions between phone, tablet, "ultralight laptop" and "main laptop" are arbitrary and increasingly opaque. Many people are starting to see tablets and real possible replacements: for light users, it handles 90% of their computer usage (internet browser, video and photo viewing). Even for "serious" computer users, tablets offer many advantages. They are quiet, keep cool, look good, super portable, and last a long time. People seem quite content with the lower processing power if they afforded these big pluses. This Surface with integrated keyboard and support for regular win 8 apps could take it the extra 10% for a lot of people.

jcitme 14y ago
I do wonder a bit, how will this blurring of the laptop/tablet line affect their cash cow, Microsoft Office? The business world is trained to believe: they NEED office, and office == productivity. The iPad, long without these apps, challenged this ideal. How would the tablet world spilling into the laptop world affect Office sales...
- kailashbadu 14y ago
  For people who want productivity software suits like Office from lighter computers, they have online versions of Office.
- uvTwitch 14y ago
  Probably not too badly, considering this tablet will likely be inescapably bundled with Office, if it isn't a core part of the system by now.
- sukuriant 14y ago
  I believe I heard in the video that Office is bundled with the RT version of the laptop Necessary disclaimer: Microsoft employee Addendum: I did not work on this machine, and did not know about it (I don't think?) until today.
- niels_olson 14y ago
  Even my boss and my partner, died-in-the-wool Windows fans, are well aware of OpenOffice. The idea that MS Office is necessary for productivity simply does not exist. Anyone in an office still using Windows has at least considered the possibility of seeing Linux or Mac on their desktop. Maybe not seriously, but the thought has crossed their mind.
  - mistermann 14y ago
    > The idea that MS Office is necessary for productivity simply does not exist. If you have thousands of pre-existing spreadsheets in your office, many of them running fairly complex VBA macros, the idea that MS Office is necessary certainly does exist. And I've never worked anywhere where that isn't the case. And at organizations of this type, the licensing cost of Office per desktop is peanuts. Can't remember what the prices were, but I was shocked how little it costs large organizations.
    - niels_olson 14y ago
      That's probably a bit different. Anyone who writes or manages "fairly complex VBA macros" (and I have consulted for a company that did) is well aware there are many ways to skin that cat. That's not a definition of necessity. That's a definition of percieved cost of change.
- danmaz74 14y ago
  From the "About" section: Create, collaborate, and get stuff done with Office
technoslut 14y ago
I've always thought Apple was pretty clear in the direction they were headed when Jobs made his car and trucks analogy at All Things D. The iPad is meant for the 90% of current users as their main device. The PC is for the heavy lifting for those in fields such as audio, video and science. There may be a time where a tablet can meet these needs but I certainly don't think we're close yet.
- kenjackson 14y ago
  One thing about Jobs... he was good at saying, "XYZ is a bad idea" right up until the day he announces "we're doing XYZ and it will change the world". Once Apple can get iOS working well on x86, they'll do the same.
  - Judson 14y ago
    From what I understand, the problem with x68 is the lack of processors that can compete with ARM on battery life, which is one of the most important aspects of a portable device.
    - freehunter 14y ago
      Intel has and is shipping x86 SoC processors which can compete (perhaps not beat) with ARM power efficiency. [1] On the flip side, ARM doesn't scale as well as x86 to higher power outputs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29
  - sjwright 14y ago
    > Once Apple can get iOS working well on x86 I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that iOS already works well on x86 and has never not worked well on x86. After all, the core OS maintains ongoing heritage with an x86 OS, and every single app in the store has already been successfully compiled for x86...
    - someperson 14y ago
bfe 14y ago
And I think it makes a big difference that they're meaningfully aiming to transcend the iPad, not just imitate it.
- lotharbot 14y ago
  My biggest takeaway from the announcement was that this was a very Microsoft-like approach to the tablet market, and I mean that in a good way. When I think of an iPad, I think of something that's a natural progression from the iPod and iPhone, running bigger and better versions of the apps you can get from the Apple walled garden. It's a fantastic piece of hardware and a tight ecosystem. Microsoft isn't just trying to compete by offering its own similar piece of hardware to run its own similar apps. They are looking to offer high-performance hardware (an Ivy Bridge chip in a tablet!) with great design, and they're looking to run full-fledged Windows applications. They're not just competing with iPad, they're offering a possible desktop replacement tablet. That's a bold move.
  - AllenKids 14y ago
    Admittedly details are everything but isn't the desktop replacement tablet Microsoft's vision all along？I mean Bill Gates back in the early 2000s promoted the concept heavily. This is much slicker and powerful enough to amount another try, but "bold"? More like stubborn.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    The Ivy Bridge won't offer anywhere near the battery life of an ARM tablet, though. At best it will be half of that.
    - Mythbusters 14y ago
      What it will offer though is a full compatibility to existing windows application. People might be ready to lose a few hours of battery life for that.
      - jpadkins 14y ago
slurgfest 14y ago
There is no disappearing division between devices, there is rather a stronger division between mobile platforms (including tablet and phone) and PC platforms. And that division is only going to get stronger. Maemo and Meego are dead. Chromebooks are not likely to blow up. If small ARM machines get popular it will be by running some weird mobile-type OS. Native apps seem to be much more commercially attractive than pure HTML5 apps. On the other hand, I don't see evidence that iOS and Android are going to become plausible PC platforms. Netbook sales have slowed way down. All the buzz is about expensive mobile devices like tablets, and expensive laptops, and these two categories are not converging. It only appears that a convergence is coming because mobile platforms are cannibalizing the casual uses for PCs and netbooks.
- repoman 14y ago
  I agree. The division is stronger. Well, the only reason why people build native apps is because it is faster to build native apps. Even when HTML5 is completely published, if you have to write a game on the browser, it can take forever to actually find out the bug you have. Browser bugs are not fun to learn! Chrome will die, and replaced by Android. Google can't have both. I don't give a damn about these electronics anymore. I use my iPad for video and books, and my computer for gaming and everything else. I say the new MS tablet will be more convenient to use...

jcitme 14y ago

I do wonder a bit, how will this blurring of the laptop/tablet line affect their cash cow, Microsoft Office? The business world is trained to believe: they NEED office, and office == productivity. The iPad, long without these apps, challenged this ideal. How would the tablet world spilling into the laptop world affect Office sales...

kailashbadu 14y ago
For people who want productivity software suits like Office from lighter computers, they have online versions of Office.
uvTwitch 14y ago
Probably not too badly, considering this tablet will likely be inescapably bundled with Office, if it isn't a core part of the system by now.
sukuriant 14y ago
I believe I heard in the video that Office is bundled with the RT version of the laptop Necessary disclaimer: Microsoft employee Addendum: I did not work on this machine, and did not know about it (I don't think?) until today.
niels_olson 14y ago
Even my boss and my partner, died-in-the-wool Windows fans, are well aware of OpenOffice. The idea that MS Office is necessary for productivity simply does not exist. Anyone in an office still using Windows has at least considered the possibility of seeing Linux or Mac on their desktop. Maybe not seriously, but the thought has crossed their mind.
- mistermann 14y ago
  > The idea that MS Office is necessary for productivity simply does not exist. If you have thousands of pre-existing spreadsheets in your office, many of them running fairly complex VBA macros, the idea that MS Office is necessary certainly does exist. And I've never worked anywhere where that isn't the case. And at organizations of this type, the licensing cost of Office per desktop is peanuts. Can't remember what the prices were, but I was shocked how little it costs large organizations.
  - niels_olson 14y ago
    That's probably a bit different. Anyone who writes or manages "fairly complex VBA macros" (and I have consulted for a company that did) is well aware there are many ways to skin that cat. That's not a definition of necessity. That's a definition of percieved cost of change.
danmaz74 14y ago
From the "About" section: Create, collaborate, and get stuff done with Office

technoslut 14y ago

I've always thought Apple was pretty clear in the direction they were headed when Jobs made his car and trucks analogy at All Things D. The iPad is meant for the 90% of current users as their main device. The PC is for the heavy lifting for those in fields such as audio, video and science. There may be a time where a tablet can meet these needs but I certainly don't think we're close yet.

kenjackson 14y ago
One thing about Jobs... he was good at saying, "XYZ is a bad idea" right up until the day he announces "we're doing XYZ and it will change the world". Once Apple can get iOS working well on x86, they'll do the same.
- Judson 14y ago
  From what I understand, the problem with x68 is the lack of processors that can compete with ARM on battery life, which is one of the most important aspects of a portable device.
  - freehunter 14y ago
    Intel has and is shipping x86 SoC processors which can compete (perhaps not beat) with ARM power efficiency. [1] On the flip side, ARM doesn't scale as well as x86 to higher power outputs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29
- sjwright 14y ago
  > Once Apple can get iOS working well on x86 I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that iOS already works well on x86 and has never not worked well on x86. After all, the core OS maintains ongoing heritage with an x86 OS, and every single app in the store has already been successfully compiled for x86...
  - someperson 14y ago

bfe 14y ago

And I think it makes a big difference that they're meaningfully aiming to transcend the iPad, not just imitate it.

lotharbot 14y ago
My biggest takeaway from the announcement was that this was a very Microsoft-like approach to the tablet market, and I mean that in a good way. When I think of an iPad, I think of something that's a natural progression from the iPod and iPhone, running bigger and better versions of the apps you can get from the Apple walled garden. It's a fantastic piece of hardware and a tight ecosystem. Microsoft isn't just trying to compete by offering its own similar piece of hardware to run its own similar apps. They are looking to offer high-performance hardware (an Ivy Bridge chip in a tablet!) with great design, and they're looking to run full-fledged Windows applications. They're not just competing with iPad, they're offering a possible desktop replacement tablet. That's a bold move.
- AllenKids 14y ago
  Admittedly details are everything but isn't the desktop replacement tablet Microsoft's vision all along？I mean Bill Gates back in the early 2000s promoted the concept heavily. This is much slicker and powerful enough to amount another try, but "bold"? More like stubborn.
- mtgx 14y ago
  The Ivy Bridge won't offer anywhere near the battery life of an ARM tablet, though. At best it will be half of that.
  - Mythbusters 14y ago
    What it will offer though is a full compatibility to existing windows application. People might be ready to lose a few hours of battery life for that.
    - jpadkins 14y ago

slurgfest 14y ago

There is no disappearing division between devices, there is rather a stronger division between mobile platforms (including tablet and phone) and PC platforms. And that division is only going to get stronger. Maemo and Meego are dead. Chromebooks are not likely to blow up. If small ARM machines get popular it will be by running some weird mobile-type OS. Native apps seem to be much more commercially attractive than pure HTML5 apps. On the other hand, I don't see evidence that iOS and Android are going to become plausible PC platforms. Netbook sales have slowed way down. All the buzz is about expensive mobile devices like tablets, and expensive laptops, and these two categories are not converging. It only appears that a convergence is coming because mobile platforms are cannibalizing the casual uses for PCs and netbooks.

repoman 14y ago
I agree. The division is stronger. Well, the only reason why people build native apps is because it is faster to build native apps. Even when HTML5 is completely published, if you have to write a game on the browser, it can take forever to actually find out the bug you have. Browser bugs are not fun to learn! Chrome will die, and replaced by Android. Google can't have both. I don't give a damn about these electronics anymore. I use my iPad for video and books, and my computer for gaming and everything else. I say the new MS tablet will be more convenient to use...