6 ms·

Why Are We Still Making Unshaded Playgrounds?

37 points by lxm 2y ago

1970-01-01 2y ago
Because shade is expensive and children are not going to complain in a city hall meeting.
- thecompilr 2y ago
  Shade is not expensive, at the simplest form it is three poles with a stretched canopy, all new playgrounds in Florid have at least that
  - stavros 2y ago
    Isn't the simplest form a tree?
    - senkora 2y ago
      Trees probably need more maintenance, and mature trees are very expensive.
      - timschmidt 2y ago
        The best time to plant a tree is 10 years ago. The second best time is today.
    - hasbot 2y ago
      A tree that produces effective shade takes on the order of 20 years to grow and often requires watering and protection to get established.
      - pvaldes 2y ago
        That is still a bargain for the services that the tree provides. The best "premium shadow package" available on the market. Comprises: filtered light, relaxing breeze sounds, noise blocker, chirping birds and flowers, dumb squirrels frolicking around and fresh soil, all in the same package for just ten dollars a sapling. In any case, hedges don't need 20 years to grow.
        hasbot 2y ago
        $10 for a sapling is extremely cheap. That's more in the line of what you can expect to pay for a 2 year old seedling (ref: https://monroecd.org/tree-sale-2024/ https://monroecd.org/tree-sale-2024/). But I agree. I've planted 10k+ seedlings (most not personally; I hired a crew). It's actually fun to watch them grow. Douglas Firs take about 5 years to grow to 5' (from 18"). After that, they grow 3'+ a year. Not being a food source, they don't attract wildlife though nor do they have flowers.
        pvaldes 2y ago
        > $10 for a sapling is extremely cheap Will depend a lot on species, age and season of the year. Conifers are more expensive because can't be sold at fall as naked-root trees.
    - d13 2y ago
      Yes, you’re absolutely correct.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Canopies are made of fabric and degrade; they need maintenance and replacement, which isn't going to happen in America. Instead, they'll be put up once (at great expense, with some company profiting handsomely, and it just so happens that company is owned by the brother of someone important on the city council), and then just left there. After a few years, there will be holes in the canopy and it'll look like the movie "I Am Legend" (where the city degrades quickly because all the people are gone and no one's doing maintenance), and no one will want to play there. Parents will complain, but the city will push back because fixing it requires demolishing and rebuilding the entire playground, which is very expensive and not in the city's budget.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - defrost 2y ago
      They're relatively cheap and easy to replace, having a neighbourhood play action committee can handle the costs every five years to a decade with regular bake sales. What's more of an issue is > Canopies are made of [ Plastic ] fabric typically knitted polyethylene blend | woven polypropylene. The degradation of tens of thousands of kilometers of plastic shadecloth each year is a big source of microplastics in the environment .. which has been getting some bad press of late.
      - SkyPuncher 2y ago
        It’s fine in my backyard, but nearly every public playground barely gets enough attention as it is.
- bandyaboot 2y ago
  It seems to me that that logic could be applied to playgrounds in general regardless of whether they include shade. Playgrounds have gotten much better than they were a few decades ago when I was a kid. I don’t see any reason that that can’t continue with putting an emphasis on including shade.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  It feels like the parents should be able to, though.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Same with 100 dB hand dryers that cause panic attack
  - mindslight 2y ago
    Don't forget about kicking up all the bathroom bacteria into the air, as well as leaving you nothing to open the door with.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      As an adult I vastly prefer dysons, but having both options is best. Sometimes you just need some paper. Bathroom bacteria is on paper too.
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    Until my dying day will I remember the airport where some genius put the hand dryer directly next to the changing station.
- poulsbohemian 2y ago
  >not going to complain in a city hall meeting. This accounts for about 90% of the problem with everything. Voter turnout in my state in the primary, where we have mail-in voting for all (IE: no excuse for people not to vote), during a presidential election year, was below 50%. And then people complain about their elected officials! People don't attend public meetings, they don't contact their elected officials, they don't come to political party meetings or get involved -- but those same people will tell you to your face that both parties are the same and that they feel powerless to fix government! Especially at a local level -- school board, city council, county, and state -- the average citizen has so stinking much opportunity that they don't even realize their own power! You want to get something fixed? Set up a meeting or two with your electeds. Don't get the response you want? Find ways to create a citizens movement. Can't get what you want in your municipality? Find a sympathetic state legislator or two who can push from the top town. Really upset? Run for office yourself or help get the people you want elected.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
thedougd 2y ago
My US town has been adding shade structures to new and existing playgrounds. They don’t always meet the mark though and I wonder if they’re using architects who model the Sun to choose their placement.
romwell 2y ago
>Why Are We Still Making Unshaded Playgrounds? Because the US is developed as an urbanite-hostile wasteland, devoid of third places[1], where people are kept out of the streets by design, and are goaded into existing only in the following locations: 1. Home 2. Work 3. Car 4. Somewhere you will be spending money - particularly, if it involves connecting with other people Parks exist, but I can't recall the last time I met anyone at a park. The interactions are usually limited to "Hello" and commenting on the weather as you pass someone on a trail. There are exceptions, of course. And there are shaded playgrounds too. But there's a reason most people meet their spouses online these days. The Internet has become our third place because our actual places keep us isolated. NYC is on of the few exceptional American cities, but it, too, is not immune to the blight (so excellently described by N.K. Jemisin in her ode to The City[3] that only New Yorkers will fully appreciate). The playgrounds follow the overall trend. [1] https://esl.uchicago.edu/2023/11/01/third-places-what-are-they-and-why-are-they-important-to-american-culture/ https://esl.uchicago.edu/2023/11/01/third-places-what-are-th... [2] https://www.theknot.com/content/online-dating-most-popular-way-to-meet-spouse https://www.theknot.com/content/online-dating-most-popular-w... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_We_Became https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_We_Became
- qwerpy 2y ago
  I have a different experience in Bellevue, WA. I take my kids to parks multiple times a week. There's natural shade from the tall trees here, and some of the parks without natural shade have artificial shade. The parks here are clean, well-maintained, full of families, and devoid of trash and tents. Most neighborhoods have a park within walking distance, and it can be fun to explore new parks because there is usually ample parking. You're right though, it's uncommon to meet new people at parks. "Single and ready to mingle" isn't a demographic that goes to these parks. At best you might get the contact info for the parents of kids the same age as yours.
  - romwell 2y ago
    Seattle is an exceptional city in the US in that respect, and the only one aside from NYC where I'd feel comfortable living without a car. If not for the climate, I'd move there already.
Woshiwuja 2y ago
Today i learned USA city kids have a common enemy with italian kids on vacation: Scorching hot full metal slides that will leave 3rd degree burns on your body
- paretoer 2y ago
  50 years ago at my elementary school playground in the US I remember a scorching reflective metal slide that would slide you right into pool of mud. I haven't seen one of these slides in America in at least 30 years. Any new playground I have seen is made of plastic and/or wood but I guess that doesn't get the clicks.
  - Woshiwuja 2y ago
    Those are the worse. Its literally a sheet of metal, under the sun without any shade. Those were either 90C in the summer or -30C in the winter. No inbetween
xhkkffbf 2y ago
And in 30-50 years, people will rediscover the power of photocatalyzed reactions in the skin and portray modern folks as foolish, out-of-touch Edwardian prisses who tried to represses the immune system of the young with shade cloth. It's just a matter of time.

37 points by lxm 2y ago

1970-01-01 2y ago

Because shade is expensive and children are not going to complain in a city hall meeting.

thecompilr 2y ago
Shade is not expensive, at the simplest form it is three poles with a stretched canopy, all new playgrounds in Florid have at least that
- stavros 2y ago
  Isn't the simplest form a tree?
  - senkora 2y ago
    Trees probably need more maintenance, and mature trees are very expensive.
    - timschmidt 2y ago
      The best time to plant a tree is 10 years ago. The second best time is today.
  - hasbot 2y ago
    A tree that produces effective shade takes on the order of 20 years to grow and often requires watering and protection to get established.
    - pvaldes 2y ago
      That is still a bargain for the services that the tree provides. The best "premium shadow package" available on the market. Comprises: filtered light, relaxing breeze sounds, noise blocker, chirping birds and flowers, dumb squirrels frolicking around and fresh soil, all in the same package for just ten dollars a sapling. In any case, hedges don't need 20 years to grow.
      - hasbot 2y ago
        $10 for a sapling is extremely cheap. That's more in the line of what you can expect to pay for a 2 year old seedling (ref: https://monroecd.org/tree-sale-2024/ https://monroecd.org/tree-sale-2024/). But I agree. I've planted 10k+ seedlings (most not personally; I hired a crew). It's actually fun to watch them grow. Douglas Firs take about 5 years to grow to 5' (from 18"). After that, they grow 3'+ a year. Not being a food source, they don't attract wildlife though nor do they have flowers.
        pvaldes 2y ago
        > $10 for a sapling is extremely cheap Will depend a lot on species, age and season of the year. Conifers are more expensive because can't be sold at fall as naked-root trees.
  - d13 2y ago
    Yes, you’re absolutely correct.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Canopies are made of fabric and degrade; they need maintenance and replacement, which isn't going to happen in America. Instead, they'll be put up once (at great expense, with some company profiting handsomely, and it just so happens that company is owned by the brother of someone important on the city council), and then just left there. After a few years, there will be holes in the canopy and it'll look like the movie "I Am Legend" (where the city degrades quickly because all the people are gone and no one's doing maintenance), and no one will want to play there. Parents will complain, but the city will push back because fixing it requires demolishing and rebuilding the entire playground, which is very expensive and not in the city's budget.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - defrost 2y ago
    They're relatively cheap and easy to replace, having a neighbourhood play action committee can handle the costs every five years to a decade with regular bake sales. What's more of an issue is > Canopies are made of [ Plastic ] fabric typically knitted polyethylene blend | woven polypropylene. The degradation of tens of thousands of kilometers of plastic shadecloth each year is a big source of microplastics in the environment .. which has been getting some bad press of late.
    - SkyPuncher 2y ago
      It’s fine in my backyard, but nearly every public playground barely gets enough attention as it is.
bandyaboot 2y ago
It seems to me that that logic could be applied to playgrounds in general regardless of whether they include shade. Playgrounds have gotten much better than they were a few decades ago when I was a kid. I don’t see any reason that that can’t continue with putting an emphasis on including shade.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
It feels like the parents should be able to, though.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
Same with 100 dB hand dryers that cause panic attack
- mindslight 2y ago
  Don't forget about kicking up all the bathroom bacteria into the air, as well as leaving you nothing to open the door with.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    As an adult I vastly prefer dysons, but having both options is best. Sometimes you just need some paper. Bathroom bacteria is on paper too.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  Until my dying day will I remember the airport where some genius put the hand dryer directly next to the changing station.
poulsbohemian 2y ago
>not going to complain in a city hall meeting. This accounts for about 90% of the problem with everything. Voter turnout in my state in the primary, where we have mail-in voting for all (IE: no excuse for people not to vote), during a presidential election year, was below 50%. And then people complain about their elected officials! People don't attend public meetings, they don't contact their elected officials, they don't come to political party meetings or get involved -- but those same people will tell you to your face that both parties are the same and that they feel powerless to fix government! Especially at a local level -- school board, city council, county, and state -- the average citizen has so stinking much opportunity that they don't even realize their own power! You want to get something fixed? Set up a meeting or two with your electeds. Don't get the response you want? Find ways to create a citizens movement. Can't get what you want in your municipality? Find a sympathetic state legislator or two who can push from the top town. Really upset? Run for office yourself or help get the people you want elected.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

thedougd 2y ago

My US town has been adding shade structures to new and existing playgrounds. They don’t always meet the mark though and I wonder if they’re using architects who model the Sun to choose their placement.

romwell 2y ago

>Why Are We Still Making Unshaded Playgrounds? Because the US is developed as an urbanite-hostile wasteland, devoid of third places[1], where people are kept out of the streets by design, and are goaded into existing only in the following locations: 1. Home 2. Work 3. Car 4. Somewhere you will be spending money - particularly, if it involves connecting with other people Parks exist, but I can't recall the last time I met anyone at a park. The interactions are usually limited to "Hello" and commenting on the weather as you pass someone on a trail. There are exceptions, of course. And there are shaded playgrounds too. But there's a reason most people meet their spouses online these days. The Internet has become our third place because our actual places keep us isolated. NYC is on of the few exceptional American cities, but it, too, is not immune to the blight (so excellently described by N.K. Jemisin in her ode to The City[3] that only New Yorkers will fully appreciate). The playgrounds follow the overall trend. [1] https://esl.uchicago.edu/2023/11/01/third-places-what-are-they-and-why-are-they-important-to-american-culture/ https://esl.uchicago.edu/2023/11/01/third-places-what-are-th... [2] https://www.theknot.com/content/online-dating-most-popular-way-to-meet-spouse https://www.theknot.com/content/online-dating-most-popular-w... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_We_Became https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_We_Became

qwerpy 2y ago
I have a different experience in Bellevue, WA. I take my kids to parks multiple times a week. There's natural shade from the tall trees here, and some of the parks without natural shade have artificial shade. The parks here are clean, well-maintained, full of families, and devoid of trash and tents. Most neighborhoods have a park within walking distance, and it can be fun to explore new parks because there is usually ample parking. You're right though, it's uncommon to meet new people at parks. "Single and ready to mingle" isn't a demographic that goes to these parks. At best you might get the contact info for the parents of kids the same age as yours.
- romwell 2y ago
  Seattle is an exceptional city in the US in that respect, and the only one aside from NYC where I'd feel comfortable living without a car. If not for the climate, I'd move there already.

Woshiwuja 2y ago

Today i learned USA city kids have a common enemy with italian kids on vacation: Scorching hot full metal slides that will leave 3rd degree burns on your body

paretoer 2y ago
50 years ago at my elementary school playground in the US I remember a scorching reflective metal slide that would slide you right into pool of mud. I haven't seen one of these slides in America in at least 30 years. Any new playground I have seen is made of plastic and/or wood but I guess that doesn't get the clicks.
- Woshiwuja 2y ago
  Those are the worse. Its literally a sheet of metal, under the sun without any shade. Those were either 90C in the summer or -30C in the winter. No inbetween

xhkkffbf 2y ago

And in 30-50 years, people will rediscover the power of photocatalyzed reactions in the skin and portray modern folks as foolish, out-of-touch Edwardian prisses who tried to represses the immune system of the young with shade cloth. It's just a matter of time.